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I am trying to trace details for my great grandfather Alfred Knight b 1869 in Swinton or Pendlebury, Lancashire. His father was Samuel Knight but I am not sure of his birth year or area. It would probably be Lancashire or Cheshire sometime between 1830 to 1850ish. Alfred married Esther Taylor in 1896 at Partington Congregational Chapel in the district of Altrincham. I can't find any records of Alfred living in a family unit before the 1901 census when he was with his wife Esther and their eldest child Ellen Known as Nellie. She was born about 1897. They also had Josiah, my grandad b 1906 in Cadishead, Lancashire. I think this is going to be case of if you aren't related to Alfred, you won't know he ever existed so he could be a relative without you actually knowing. For this reason I am also searching for his father Samuel and another possible relative called Mary A Knight.

When Alfred married Esther, his father was listed on the marriage certificate as being a cotton operative and already deceased in April 1896. One of the witnesses who signed the marriage certificate is Mary A Knight. This could possibly be a sister, sister-in-law or cousin ? The other witnesses were George Rogers and Alfred Carter.

I have found records for an Alfred Knight in 1871 in Green Lane Union Workhouse in Worsley and again in 1881 he shows in Swinton Industrial School. I have contacted the Lancashire Record Office and they said that Alfred was first admitted in December 1871 but discharged in April 1872. He was then re-admitted in July 1872 and grew up there until eventually being permanently discharged in August 1883. The records say that his mother was deceased at the time he was first admitted.

So the facts I have to go off are that Alfred was born in Pendlebury, Swinton, Lancashire in 1869.
His father was Samuel Knight possibly born either Lancashire or Cheshire but may have lived further afield. He was deceased by April 1896.
His mother's name is as yet unknown but she was deceased by December 1871.
He had a friend or relative called Mary A Knight who was present and signed the register at his marriage to Esther Taylor.
Their children were Ellen (Nellie) b 1897 and Josiah b 1906.

Something that makes me strongly suspect that this was my Alfred who grew up in the Industrial School away from his family is the fact that Nellie had a son (called Albert) out of wedlock. The father was apparently already married to someone else. Nellie stayed living at home with her parents and they brought the child up together without any questions. This was sometime in the 1920's when it wasn't usually accepted so easily. This leads me to believe that as Alfred had been through the experience it was never an option to send the child away.

If any of the names seem familiar or you have a Samuel Knight possibly born sometime between the 1830's and 1850's I'd love to hear from you. I go very much off gut instincts and it has always worked for me in the past. Even if you think it's unlikely but you have a Samuel or Mary A Knight please send the info anyway.

Many thanks for any help you gan give
Libby :-S

This would surely be his birth certificate if he was born Pendlebury.
His mother's name would be on it.

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Births Mar 1869
KNIGHT Alfred - Barton 8c 520

Have you seen this 1871 census ?

1871 England Census 1871 England Census
Name: Samuel Knight
Age: 47
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1824
Relation: Head
Gender: Male
Where born: Eccles, Lancashire, England
Civil parish: Barton Upon Irwell
Ecclesiastical parish: St Catharine
Town: Barton
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: Barton Upon Irwell
Sub-registration district: Barton
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Household schedule number: 241
Piece: 3969
Folio: 155
Page Number: 40
Household Members: Name Age
Samuel Knight 47 --widow--cotton opp
Mary Alice Knight 15 ---daughter


Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 3969; Folio: 155; Page: 40; GSU roll: 841957.


Address 25 Canal Bank

KNIGHT, Alfred Head Married M 41 1870 Engineers Labourer Lancashire Swinton VIEW
KNIGHT, Esther Wife Married
15 years F 38 1873 Lancashire Cadishead VIEW
KNIGHT, Ellen Daughter F 14 1897 Basket Maker Lancashire Swinton VIEW
KNIGHT, Josiah Son M 5 1906 Lancashire Cadishead VIEW
RG number:
RG14 Piece:
23615 Reference:
RG14PN23615 RG78PN1375 RD463 SD2 ED31 SN40

Registration District:
Barton upon Irwell Sub District:
Barton Enumeration District:
31 Parish:
Irlam

Address:
28 Dean Road Cadishead

1861 England Census about Mary Alice Knight
Name: Mary Alice Knight
Age: 5
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1856
Relation: Niece
Gender: Female
Where born: Barton Upon, Lancashire, England
Civil parish: Salford
Ecclesiastical parish: St Bartholomew
Town: Salford
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

View image
Registration district: Salford
Sub-registration district: Regent Road
ED, institution, or vessel: 22
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 153
Piece: 2923
Folio: 112
Page Number: 32
Household Members:
Name Age
Josiah Bethell 33
Elizabeth Bethell 40
Mary Alice Knight 5 niece

Have you tried the search trees? There is someone with Alfred Knight 1870 Swinton in their tree

jax

Mary Alice Knight
Pedigree
Female

Event(s):
Birth:
Christening:
02 SEP 1855 Eccles, Lancashire, England
Death:
Burial:

Parents:
Father: Samuel Knight
Family
Mother: Elizabeth Knight

Thanks for all the details folks. I have ordered a birth certificate for Alfred but it seems to be taking ages to come. Lindsey has found the right details for Alfred that I have already got and definitely verify the address as I've been in the house when I was younger.
It's the details from Mike that made me nearly fall off my chair though cos they sound spot on. I don't know how on earth I haven't seen that before. If I can just find them on the 1861 I'll know who his mother was.... :-D

Oh no I got so giddy and over excited I put the wrong persons name down. It was the details from Barbara that had me bouncing around the room. Thankyou so much to you all for your help though, I'm now well on the way to solving a mystery that has bugged me for 8 years. I still need to find out why he went in and out of the workhouse and what the parents died of just to tie up all the loose ends

This will be a guess until you get the birth cert

Marriages Mar 1851 (>99%)
Knight Samuel Barton 20 82
Pearson Elizabeth Barton &c 20 82

I'm working on that same assumption right now. I've got Trueman, Howarth, Pearson or Hogan as the options I've narrowed it down to. I've looked at the marriage of Samuel with Elizabeth Pearson a few times before and been drawn to it but not known how to prove it. As you say tho, the birth certificate should clear it up once and for all.
Thanks again Lindsey

I've found Mary A Knight on the 1881 census living with Josiah and Elizabeth Bethell and she shows as being their niece. She is with them again on the 1891 census along with Mary Pearson who is also listed as being their niece. Now I'm completely convinced that her mother was Elizabeth Pearson and my grandad was named Josiah after the Uncle who took in and looked after Mary, the big sister of Alfred. I'm now going to bed with a HUGE smile on my face because I feel I have finally put Alfred with the family he belongs to after all these years of working on it. :-D
Thankyou so much to you all and if you come up with anything else I'd be more than grateful.
Goodnight folks

Samuel is a Silk Throwster and the boy is her son / living next door to Josiah Bethell ?


1851 England Census about Samuel Knight
Name: Samuel Knight
Age: 24
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1827
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Elizth Knight
Gender: M (Male)
Where born: Eccles, Lancashire, England
Civil parish: Barton Upon Irwell
Ecclesiastical parish: St Catharine
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability:

View image
Registration district: Barton Upon Irwell
Sub-registration district: Barton
ED, institution, or vessel: 1h
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 179
Piece: 2218
Folio: 242
Page Number: 54
Household Members:
Name Age
Samuel Knight 24
Elizth Knight 27
John Pearson 9