Find Ancestors

With much help from Chrissiex I have started to unravel the Souths.

have now found Alfred on the 1911 census and yes he was born in Lambeth, the right age and works in iron foundry which fits in with his sons marriage cert n 1932. Seems he also had another sister Gertrude who was born and died in 1872 which I found from the baptism records on Ancestry)

I haven't been able to find him yet in 1891 or 1901 anyone care to have a bash?

kate

Thanks for your later replies.

I suppose the only clue I had to his age was the marriage cert ( on which he could have lied) as I haven't found Alfred on other census records yet. The fact that there was another Alfred South born in Lambeth in 1877 led me down that route.

Ill send for some certificates

Many thanks

Kate

I am also curious about this child

Births Mar 1906
South Joseph Henry Lambeth 1d 319

who died two years later in Lambeth, the same quarter as the elder Joseph South ...

that Alfred had no brothers ( I checked 1871, Joseph Henry and Rosetta had only a daughter Annie Eliza and Rosetta died shortly after the 1881 census )

so we might think that either he or his sister had a child named for their father

Births Sep 1869
South Annie Eliza J Lambeth 1d 312
Deaths Dec 1881
SOUTH Annie Eliza J 12 Lambeth 1d 211
South Annie Eliza J 12 Lambeth 1d 241

and it was not Annie ............

good! that solves that mystery

the marriage info at freebmd actually does say

Marriages Jun 1912
Ireson Elizabeth F Starkings Guildford 2a 188
Iveson Elizabeth F Starkings Guildford 2a 188
STARKINGS James Iveson Guildford 2a 188

and I think usually it is the second entry that is the correction ( I guess that is so when it is a correction to page numbers ) so that was how I read it but it was the other way around :-)

Maybe this is the other Elizabeth F Iveson/Ireson

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Births Dec 1879
Ireson Elizabeth Florry - W. Ham 4a 24



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Marriages Jun 1912
Ireson Elizabeth F - Starkings - Guildford 2a 188

and 'deceased' would fit with the death I posted, which fits with the Joseph in the 1881 census with son Alfred ..........

do you not really think this is the right family ?

I am also curious whether anyone has any thoughts about that Elizabeth F Iveson marriage just earlier in 1912 ... or can find any trace of either the bride or the groom in that marriage, before or after the marriage ...

Unfortunately it just says deceased :-( :-(

I think he really must be Alfred Albert E South whose father was Joseph Henry who married Rosetta Handling.

what is the occupation given for Joseph Henry on the marriage certificate ( or was he deceased? )

in 1881 Joseph was a labourer ... born in Wickham Essex, as was Rosetta

Deaths Sep 1882
South Rosetta 41 Lambeth 1d 244

but for Joseph H I don't see a death ...

Deaths Sep 1908 ?
South Joseph 72 Camberwell 1d 368

There are too many Souths all round !

Thanks for trying , its driven me round the bend already ;-)

I think that is the birth and death for Alfred then ?

1911 born in Lambeth

SOUTH ALFRED 1875 36 Maldon Essex

I do not have a subscription and I am not having luck finding who he is living with ( too many Alfred Souths in Maldon )

I havent got deaths for them on the tree yet, either of them

Births Sep 1877 (>99%)
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SOUTH Alfred Lambeth 1d 326

I was thinking this was his birth

1881


Name: Alfred A. E. South
Age: 7
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1874
Relation: Son
Father's name: Joseph H. South
Mother's name: Rosetta South
Gender: Male
Where born: Lambeth, Surrey, England

Civil parish: Lambeth

>> Joseph H. South 44
Rosetta South 41
Annie E. V. South 11
Alfred A. E. South 7


so he is this death

Name: Alfred A E South
Birth Date: abt 1874
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1934
Age at Death: 60
Registration district: Lambeth
Inferred County: Greater London
Volume: 1d
Page: 229

Births Sep 1873
South Alfred Albert E Lambeth 1d 367

Marriages Jun 1861
Handley Rosetta Witham 4a 419
South Joseph Henery Witham 4a 419
South Joseph Henry Witham 4a 419

Name: SOUTH, ALFRED E A.

( deleted information about him to avoid confusion since I found him in the census with father James )

it is interesting that there is only ever one birth of an Elizabeth F Iveson

Births Dec 1884
Iveson Elizabeth Frances Lambeth 1d 385

( and no marriage of an Elizabeth F to an Iveson )

but there is also this marriage

Marriages Jun 1912
Iveson Elizabeth F Starkings Guildford 2a 188
STARKINGS James Iveson Guildford 2a 188

( mystery solved lower in thread, she was Ireson )

That one died in 1916 ( ancestry UK soldiers who died in the Great War)

so he wouldnt have been around to father the youngest son in 1918. maybe not him then

this is that Alfred in 1911

MILITARY SOUTH ALFRED ERNEST ANSELL 1880 31 Newhaven Sussex

It says Southwark, I think that will be my next step, but as I am really tracing the line up from Harry I was hoping not to have to !

This is his birth record
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Births Mar 1904 (>99%)
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South Alfred Charles N Southwark 1d 26

Was hoping there might be a baptism on Ancestry or the like which would confirm the mother's name but haven't been able to find one.

the first one looks likely, thanks

Kate

what does the 1911 census say for Alfred 1904's place of birth? if you could identify his birth then his birth certificate would answer the question of who his parents were !

would this be father Alfred ?

Births Dec 1878
South Alfred Ernest A St. Saviour 1d 147

Name: Alfred A E South ?
Birth Date: abt 1874
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1934
Age at Death: 60
Registration district: Lambeth
Inferred County: Greater London
Volume: 1d
Page: 229

The one in 1902 is to Catherine Smith. His age matches (he's 26) but he's a leather cutter and on the 1912 marriage he's a foundry labourer. On the 1902 marriage his father is Henry South whereas in 1912 he's Joseph Henry.
Also his signature looks different on the 2 marriage entries.

Yeah I had a look at that one , father is Henry which is a poss

He married Catherine Smith but couldn't find a death for a Catherine South .......unless she didn't die and thats why he didnt marry Elizabeth Frances til 1912?