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Hi BatMansDaughter, i have found Eliza and you were right, its gets a bit complicated but here goes, Edwin married Mary Ann Tolhurst, Edwins dad James married 2nd time to Eliza Woodhead and they had more children one was Eliza Ann Cartwright who married Mary Ann Tolhurst's son Edward John Tolhurst, so Edwin and Eliza Ann were step brother and sister..... is that right ! how confusing, but its sorted out who she was at least. thanks again for your help.

You have given me a few things to look into, nothing is ever as you think with family research is it, thanks for helping me.

Looks like Mary was very young when she had him........ so maybe there would be no natural father mentioned as illegitimacey (spelling) was very common back then.

Not as unusual as you may think......... John would be young when his mother married and his stepfather raised him, so he took his surname........ Cartwright.

Also Elizabeth Cartwright may have been related to his stepfather........????? Something for you to look at maybe??

Dee x

This gets more confusing by the minute, yes it seems that she ( Mary Ann) did have him before she met and married Ewin Cartwright, so now i have to search for his father unless she just put that name on his birth certificate to look good !

Oh now that's a possibility, so Eliza was a Cartwright and it could just be that he is a Tolhurst like his mother BUT who was his father Edward John Tolhurst ? i wonder, its unusual for the father to be named if not married to the mother.

1881 England Census
about Mary A. Tolhurst Name: Mary A. Tolhurst
Age: 21
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1860
Relation: Servant
Gender: Female
Where born: Thurnham, Lincoln, England

Civil parish: St Johns Hampstead
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address: 9 Provost Rd
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: General Servant

Registration district: Hampstead
Sub-registration district: Hampstead
ED, institution, or vessel: 36
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 175
Folio: 41
Page Number: 11
Household Members: Name Age
Charles F. Yates 70
Louisa Yates 67
Thomas C. Yates 29
Charles E. Yates 25
Anna M. Yates 23
Mary A. Tolhurst 21


1881 England Census
about John Tolhurst Name: John Tolhurst
Age: 3
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1878
Relation: Son
Father's name: Moses Tolhurst
Mother's name: Sarah Tolhurst
Gender: Male
Where born: Thornham, Kent, England

Civil parish: Thornham
County/Island: Kent
Country: England

Street Address: Ware Street 1 Tolhursts Cottages
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Scholar

Registration district: Hollingbourn
Sub-registration district: Hollingbourn
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 933
Folio: 119
Page Number: 3
Household Members: Name Age
Moses Tolhurst 51
Sarah Tolhurst 46
George Tolhurst 19
Edward Tolhurst 13
Elizabeth Tolhurst 11
Walter Tolhurst 9
Herbert Tolhurst 5
John Tolhurst 3
Kate Tolhurst 2
Jack Tolhurst 2 >>>>>>>>>> GRANDSON!!!!!!!! I wonder if Jack is your John Edward???

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

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Marriages Dec 1881 (>99%)
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CARTWRIGHT Edwin St. Olave 1d 461
PARISH William St. Olave 1d 461
Tolhurst Mary Ann St. Olave 1d 461


London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
about Mary Ann Tolhurst Name: Mary Ann Tolhurst
Age: 22
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1859
Spouse Name: Edwin Cartwright >> Carpenter
Spouse Age: 24
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 27 Nov 1881
Parish: St Mary Magdalen, Bermondsey
County: Surrey
Borough: Southwark
Father Name: Moses Tolhurst
Spouse Father Name: James Thornton Cartwright

1891 England Census
about John Cartwright Name: John Cartwright
Age: 12
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1879
Relation: Son
Father's name: Edwin Cartwright
Mother's name: Mary Cartwright
Gender: Male
Where born: Maidstone, Kent, England

Civil parish: Bermondsey
Ecclesiastical parish: St Crispin
Town: Southwark
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: St Olave Southwark
Sub-registration district: St James Bermondsey
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 374
Folio: 31
Page Number: 56
Household Members: Name Age
Edwin Cartwright 32 >>> Broom handle manufacturer
Mary Cartwright 31
John Cartwright 12
George Cartwright 4 >> Son
Wary Cartwright 2 >. Daughter
Kate Cartwright 1 >> Daughter
James Cartwright 42 >> Brother
Mary Cartwright 6 >. Niece
Annie Tolhurst 27 >> Sister in law, unmarried
George Brown 22


Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

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Marriages Jun 1898 (>99%)
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Cartwright Eliza Ann Camberwell 1d 1506
Humphrey Elizabeth Alice Camberwell 1d 1506
Le Brun Emile William C Camberwell 1d 1506
TOLHURST Edward John Camberwell 1d 1506


London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
about Edward John Tolhurst Name: Edward John Tolhurst
Age: 20
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1878
Spouse Name: Eliza Ann Cartwright
Spouse Age: 19
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 30 May 1898
Parish: Christ Church, Camberwell
County: Surrey
Borough: Southwark
Father Name: Edward John Tolhurst >> deceased carpenter
Spouse Father Name: James Cartwright >. deceased carpenter




Just a theory that Mary, his mother, had John prior to her marriage to Mr Cartwright??

Hi Michele,

have you traced John Cartwright and his mother prior to the 1901 census?

Yes that's her i notice his middle initial is F , i cant see that they married in Yorkshere as they both come from London/Kent

Hi,

is this the family?

1901 England Census
about Eliza A Cartwright Name: Eliza A Cartwright
Age: 22
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1879
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: John F Cartwright
Gender: Female
Where born: Bermondsey, London, England

Civil parish: Lewisham
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Lewisham
Sub-registration district: Lewisham
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 279
Piece: 549
Folio: 107
Page Number: 37
Household Members: Name Age
John F Cartwright 22
Eliza A Cartwright 22
John Cartwright 2
George Cartwright 1
Mary A Cartwright 40

Looking for a maiden name of Eliza Ann ? she is married to either John Edward Cartwright or Edward John he was b 1879 Thurnham kent, she is from Bermondsey in 1901 they are both 22 and living in Lewisham.
0n 1911 census it say they have been married 13yrs, and his name has changed from John to Edward ? very strange any ideas ?