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hello

I have received my great grandmothers marriage certificate today

her details read

alice maud mary willis.
age 22 spinster
living at camden town,
father john batts
23rd feb 1900

alice died on december 11th 1960 in st pancras london supposedly age 84?
her birthday was 17th may

none of the dates quite add up if she was 22 in 1900 she wouldnt have been 84 in 1960 but 83

but cannot seem to find a right birth or date to send of for her birth certificate certificate.

She may have been born in the oxfordshire area but not 100%

any help would be great.

many thanks
bev :-)

Births Sep 1881 (>99%)
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BATTS Alice Maud Witney 3a 759

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1891

Name: Alice M Batts
Age: 10
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1881
Relation: Daughter
Father's name: John Batts
Mother's name: Loucie Batts
Gender: Female
Where born: Bright Hampton, Oxfordshire, England

Civil parish: East Hanney
Ecclesiastical parish: West Hanney
Town: East Hanney
County/Island: Berkshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Wantage
Sub-registration district: Wantage
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 982
Folio: 139
Page Number: 2
Household Members: Name Age
John Batts 45 >>>Ag Lab
Loucie Batts 40
Albert I Batts 13
Alice M Batts 10
Frederick I Batts 8
Lousia A Batts 5
Edith E Batts 3
Florence E Batts 8/12


View
Original
Record

View Original Image

1901

1901 England Census
about Alice M M Willis Name: Alice M M Willis
Age: 24
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1877
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Arthur Willis
Gender: Female
Where born: Witney, Oxfordshire, England

Civil parish: St Pancras
Ecclesiastical parish: St Andrew
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: St Pancras
Sub-registration district: Kentish Town
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 539
Piece: 153
Folio: 119
Page Number: 67
Household Members: Name Age
Arthur Willis 26
Alice M M Willis 24
Alice M Willis 1


Andy

1911

WILLIS, Arthur Husband Married M 37 1874 Labourer Filkins in Oxfordshire VIEW
WILLIS, Alice Wife F 32 1879 Standlake Oxfordshire VIEW
WILLIS, Alice May Daughter F 11 1900 School St Pancras Parish in County Middlesex VIEW
WILLIS, Hilda H Daughter F 6 1905 School St Pancras Parish in County Middlesex VIEW
WILLIS, Ethel A Daughter F 5 1906 School St Pancras Parish in County Middlesex VIEW
WILLIS, Olive Mary Daughter F 2 1909 VIEW

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RG number:
RG14 Piece:
669 Reference:
RG14PN669 RG78PN23 RD9 SD1 ED18 SN102

Registration District:
St Pancras Sub District:
West St Pancras Enumeration District:
18 Parish:
St Pancras

Address:
7 Underhill Street Camden Town London N W County:
London

If she had given her true age in 1900 would she have been able to marry without parent's consent?

1901 at 65, Marsden Street, St Pancras
WILLIS, Arthur Head Married M 26 1875 Painter (House) Witney Oxfordshire
WILLIS, Alice M M Wife Married F 24 1877 Witney
WILLIS, Alice M Daughter F 1 1900 St Pancras

Possible 1881 for parents

1881 England Census
about John Batts Name: John Batts
Age: 40
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1841
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Louiza A. Batts
Gender: Male
Where born: Westland (Stanton Harcd), Oxfordshire, England

Civil parish: Standlake
County/Island: Oxfordshire
Country: England

Street Address: Rack End
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Farm Carter

Registration district: Witney
Sub-registration district: Bampton
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 1514
Folio: 135
Page Number: 9
Household Members: Name Age
John Batts 40
Louiza A. Batts 33
Richard Batts
Polley Batts 4
Albert J. Batts 2


Andy

Is this her born 28/5/1881 died 11/12/1960 in London,but i can't find the death record.
Info off lots of ancestry trees.
Her parents were John Batts 1835-1911 and Louisa Edgington 1847-1918.

Maryb

Name: Alice May Willis ............b. 29 July 1899
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1900
Baptism Date: 1 Jul 1900
Father's name: Arthur Willis .......labourer
Mother's name: Alice Maud Willis
Parish or Poor Law Union: Haverstock Hill St Andrew
Borough: Camden
,,,,,,,,,,,,Address 2 Oakfield Crescent........

http://www.deceasedonline.com/

(Burials could be on above link, pay to view)

Chris :)

What was Arthur's full name on the marriage certificate please?

There are many baptisms on Ancestry, but the name combinations for the parents is very muddling.
eg
Children of...
Arthur Harry WILLIS and Alice Maud Mary
Arthur WILLIS and Alice Maud
Walter WILLIS and Alice Maud Mary
Arthur George WILLIS and Alice Maud
Arthur WILLIS and Alice Maud Mary
...... all late 1890s and early 1900s.

Gwyn

Name: Ethel Adelaide Willis ..............b.8 April 1906
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1906
Baptism Date: 5 May 1906
Father's name: Arthur Willis ...........labourer
Mother's name: Alice Maud Mary Willis
Parish or Poor Law Union: Haverstock Hill Holy Trinity
Borough: Camden
...... Address 13 Powlett Place.........

Gwyn

thank you all very much for your help,

there is no middle name for arthur batts on the marriage cert.

looks like alice may willis was born b4 her parents married?

dont think she would have to young to have married if she had given her true age

my auntie said alices birthday was 17th may not 28th, unless alice lied or changed it for some reason,
only way i will know is if i send of for her birth certificate but not sure which one is hers?

many thanks for all of your help.

:-)

So dont you think the 1881 birth is her ? she may not have known her birthday as being 28th May ?? extra middle name thats quite common too

If she gave her real age she would have been under 21 so she would need her parents permission

jax

hello

if the 1881 birth is her it would have made her 79 when she died
, but both my auntie and the bmd death records say she was 84.
so cant find a birth for around may 1876, which would make her 84 in dec 1960.

bev x
:-S

Very true....but the age at death is only what the informant told them

My grandfathers death and marriage cert have him being born 1900 but he lied about his age and was actually born in 1897 which I only found out 40 years after he died

Also when my grandmother married she had the middle names of Gertrude Ellen which is what she was lead to believe were her names.

She found out years later when she applied for her birth cert she only had one middle name and it was Mary

jax

Alice Maud Willis, Burial 15th December 1960, address 37, Leighton Grove, age 84

(from above link, Deceased Online)

Chris :)

hi

thanks chris

that is Alice, mary has disapeared out of her name, and says she is 84?
could you really pretend to be older all those years

bev x

Yes people changed there ages for what ever reason.

To get married if under 21 without parents consent was quite common

So who registered her death? If it was a family member they would only go on the age they knew her as.

A lot of people made themselves younger so the age gap on the marriage was not so big also the spouse may have never known their real age

jax

think it was one of her daughters that registered the birth,

if her first daughter alice may was baptized in july 1900 and her parents were married in feb 1900, then she must have been pregnant when she married, which may explain why she lied about her age

thanks bev :-)