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Dear Team,
I am searching for the birth place of Joseph Townsend. My family believe he was born in Helensburgh, Scotland. But all my research state he was born in Halifax, West Yorkshire. His parents were born in Scotland, and some of his siblings were also born in Scotland (see below). I don't want to request birth certs if they prove to be wrong as they are costly. If someone can help me I would be very grateful.
Thank you.

Townsend family:
Father: John (c1840) ?Kilmarnock
Mother: Mary (nee Rae) (c1840) ?Kilmarnock
Siblings: John born Kendal, Mary born Glasgow, Ann born Kilmarnock, Elizabeth born ?Halifax, Matthew born ?Halifax.
I believe there was another Mary who may have died young. John, Elizabeth and Matthew all died young.

Regards Mary

Hello Mary - welcome to the boards


parents: Mary Townsend


name: Joseph Townsend
age: 7
gender: Male
birth year: 1874
birthplace: Halifax, Yorkshire, England
relationship to head of household: Son
marital condition: Single
profession/occupation: Scholar
address: 37 Oates Street
census place: Halifax, Yorkshire (West Riding), England
record type: Household
family history library film: 1342053
the national archives reference: RG11
piece/folio: 4406 / 5
page number: 9

1881 England Census
about Joseph Townsend
Name: Joseph Townsend
Age: 7
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1874
Relation: Son
Mother's Name: Mary Townsend
Gender: Male
Where born: Halifax, Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Halifax
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Street Address: 37 Oates Street
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Scholar

Registration district: Halifax
Sub-registration district: Halifax
ED, institution, or vessel: 50
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 4406
Folio: 5
Page Number: 9
Household Members: Name Age
Mary Townsend 41 Widow, house keeper, born Kilma...y
Annie Townsend 19 born Kilmarnock
John Townsend 17 born Kendal
Mary Townsend 13 born Glasgow
Joseph Townsend 7
Elizabeth Townsend 5


Andy

name: Joseph Townsend
event: Census
event date: 31 Mar 1901
age: 27
relationship to head of household: Head
birthplace: Halifax, Yorkshire
record type: Household
registration district: Halifax
sub-district: Northowram
ecclesiastical parish: Northowram St Matthew
civil parish: Halifax
county: Yorkshire (West Riding)

This is the 1881 transcription from Family Search:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Household:

Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
Mary TOWNSEND Head M Female 41 Kilumney, Scotland House Keeper
Annie TOWNSEND Daug U Female 19 Kilmarnock, Scotland Worsted Twister
John TOWNSEND Son U Male 17 Kendal, Westmorland, England Boot Maker
Mary TOWNSEND Daug Female 13 Glasgow, Scotland Scholar
>>Joseph TOWNSEND Son Male 7 Halifax, York, England Scholar
Elizabeth TOWNSEND Daug Female 5 Halifax, York, England Scholar


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source Information:
Dwelling 37 Oates Street
Census Place Halifax, York, England
Family History Library Film 1342053
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 4406 / 5
Page Number 9

1881

Mary TOWNSEND Head M Female 41 Kilumney, Scotland House Keeper
Annie TOWNSEND Daug U Female 19 Kilmarnock, Scotland Worsted Twister
John TOWNSEND Son U Male 17 Kendal, Westmorland, England Boot Maker
Mary TOWNSEND Daug Female 13 Glasgow, Scotland Scholar
Joseph TOWNSEND Son Male 7 Halifax, York, England Scholar
Elizabeth TOWNSEND Daug Female 5 Halifax, York, England Scholar


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source Information:
Dwelling 37 Oates Street
Census Place Halifax, York, England
Family History Library Film 1342053
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 4406 / 5
Page Number 9

Have you found the family in the various censuses, or is that what you are looking for?
The 1881 is free to search.
Thanks

Mary Townsend
England and Wales Census, 1881
birth: 1840 Scotland
residence: 1881 Halifax,? Yorkshire (West Riding),? England
census: 1881 Halifax,? Yorkshire (West Riding),? England
children: Annie Townsend,? John Townsend...


name: Mary Townsend
age: 41
gender: Female
birth year: 1840
birthplace: Scotland
relationship to head of household: Head
marital condition: Married
profession/occupation: House Keeper
address: 37 Oates Street
census place: Halifax, Yorkshire (West Riding), England
record type: Household
family history library film: 1342053
the national archives reference: RG11
piece/folio: 4406 / 5
page number: 9

Are you sure Joseph's father was John because this looks like the same family as the 1881 but father is Joseph, a shoemaker:

You searched for Ann* Townsend born in Scotland in 1862
The 1871 Census
is provided in
association with: All Results1871 England Census
about Annie Townsend
Name: Annie Townsend
Age: 9
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1862
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Joseph Townsend
Mother's Name: Mary Townsend
Gender: Female
Where born: Scotland
Civil parish: Kirkland
Town: Kendal
County/Island: Westmorland
Country: England
Registration district: Kendal
Sub-registration district: Kendal
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Household schedule number: 170
Piece: 5285
Folio: 41
Page Number: 31
Household Members: Name Age
Joseph Townsend 31
Mary Townsend 32
Annie Townsend 9
John Townsend 6
Mary Townsend 4
Matthew Townsend 1

and this looks like Annie's birth:

ANN WALKER TOWNSEND Pedigree
Birth: 28 JAN 1862 Kilmarnock, Ayr, Scotland

Parents:
Father: JOSEPH TOWNSEND Family
Mother: MARY RAY

Children of Joseph Townsend and Mary Ray or Rae (all from familysearch):

1. MARY TOWNSEND - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 01 JUL 1859 Kilmarnock, Ayr, Scotland

2. ANN WALKER TOWNSEND - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 28 JAN 1862 Kilmarnock, Ayr, Scotland

3. AGNES TOWNSEND - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 14 JAN 1861 Kilmarnock, Ayr, Scotland

4. MARY MCMILLAN TOWNSEND - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 21 MAY 1867 High Church, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland

5. MATTHEW ROBERTSON TOWNSEND - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 28 APR 1869 Calton, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland

Joseph and Mary's marriage (from familysearch); the marriage will also be on the scotlandspeople site and you can view and download the original entry from there. The entry will give you their mothers' and fathers' names:

JOSEPH TOWNSEND Pedigree
Marriages:
Spouse: MARY RAE Family
Marriage: 31 DEC 1858 Kilmarnock, Ayr, Scotland

You will also find the children's births on scotlandspeople and can view or download them.

The site is pay to view - £7 for 30 credits; it cost 1 credit to view the results of a search and 5 credits to view/download an entry, so for £7 you will be able get birth and marriage details for all the above - much cheaper than buying Engish or Welsh certs!

PM from Mary:

Hi Potty
Yes your right it was Joseph not John!!!
Although I'm not sure where Agnes features?
Regards Mary

I have replied asking her to post to the thread.

Re Agnes: she doesn't appear on the 1861 with her parents, so possibly she died. There are also two Mary's. I think the one below must also have died:

1861 Scotland Census
about Joseph Townsend
Name: Joseph Townsend
Age: 21
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1840
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name : Mary Townsend
Gender: Male
Where born: Kilmarnock, Ayrshire
Registration Number: 597
Registration district: Kilmarnock
Civil parish: Kilmarnock
Town: Kilmarnock
County: Ayrshire
Address: 26 Mill Lane
Occupation: Shoemaker
ED: 17
Household schedule number: 25
Line: 12
Roll: CSSCT1861_86
Household Members: Name Age
Joseph Townsend 21
Mary Townsend 22
Mary Townsend 1

Hi everyone,
Thanks first of all for alll your help. As I am new to this you'll have to excuse my slowness....
Yes, I'm sure these are my ancestors... I think Agnes must have died very young as I haven't come across her at all. I have never come across any relative named Agnes in either the Rae family or Townsend family either (or any other of our ancestors!). This makes me wonder if she may have been a relative/aquaintence that they were happening to look after on the night of the census... What do you think?
Regards
Mary

this is her

Agnes Townsend
Scotland Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950
birth: 14 Jan 1861 KILMARNOCK,?AYR,?SCOTLAND
residence: 1861 Ayr,? Scotland
parents: Joseph Townsend,? Mary Rae


name: Agnes Townsend
gender: Female
birth date: 14 Jan 1861
birthplace: KILMARNOCK,AYR,SCOTLAND
father's name: Joseph Townsend
mother's name: Mary Rae
indexing project (batch) number: C11597-1
system origin: Scotland-ODM
source film number: 6035516

AGNES TOWNSEND Pedigree
Female
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth: 14 JAN 1861 Kilmarnock, Ayr, Scotland
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Parents:
Father: JOSEPH TOWNSEND Family
Mother: MARY RAE
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date.

Thanks Ann...
Agnes must have been a very young baby when she died. I'll add her to my family tree.
Regards
Mary

Message received:

Hi Pam
Thanks for the info....
Yes this is my relative
Regards Mary

Mary, there is a death for an Agnes Townsend, b1861 died 1861 in Kilmarnock on scotlandspeople.

Do you have Joseph's parents' names? (they will be on the marriage entry on scotlandspeople, if you don't)