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Vera
I think that you are on probably on the right track. I seem to remember one of my older cousins mentioning years ago that there had been a change of surname in the family, so my gt grandfather could have been namedMorris Morris. The 1911 census with names, ages years married and occupation are correct .thank you
Elizabeth

Is this your g g father. Pentrefoclas should read Pentrefoelas

1911 Wales Census
about Morris Roberts Name: Morris Roberts
Age in 1911: 60
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1851
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Pentrefoclas, Denbighshire, Wales
Civil parish: Festiniog
County/Island: Merionethshire
Country: Wales
Street Address: 5 Llwynhir Terrace Blaenau Festiniog
Marital Status: Married
Years Married: 34
Occupation: Slate Quarry Rockman
Registration district: Ffestiniog
Registration District Number: 628
Sub-registration district: Ffestiniog
ED, institution, or vessel: 03
Household schedule number: 223
Piece: 34330
Household Members: Name Age
Morris Roberts 60
Mary Roberts 59

Vera

Maybe he did fall on hard times. Now he is a cattle dealer.

1871 Wales Census
Name: Martha Roberts
Age: 50
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1821
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Robert Roberts
Gender: Female
Where born: Llanarmon, Denbighshire, Wales
Civil parish: Rhyl
Ecclesiastical parish: Rhyl
Town: Rhyl
County/Island: Flintshire
Country: Wales

Registration district: St Asaph
Sub-registration district: St Asaph

Piece: 5668
Folio: 47
Page Number: 11
Household Members:
Name Age
Robert Roberts 49
Martha Roberts 50
Louisa Adelaide Roberts 11

This is the family of Robert Roberts in 1851. Lesley found them in 1861 above. This looks the most hopeful although I'm cautious as he is a farmer of 75 acres with servants (general and agricultural). It would be unusual for Morris to call him an ag lab on his marriage cert.

Ozi

1851 Wales Census
Name: Morris Roberts
Age: 5 MO
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1850
Relation: Son
Mother's Name: Martha Roberts
Gender: Male
Where born: Llanarmon, Denbighshire, Wales
Civil Parish or Township: Llanarmon
County/Island: Denbighshire
Country: Wales

Registration district: Ruthin
Sub-registration district: Llanarmon

Piece: 2504
Folio: 48
Page Number: 6
Household schedule number: 29
Household Members:
Name Age
Martha Roberts 33 - married; Farmer's wife.
Margaret Roberts 9
Anne Roberts 7
Robert Roberts 4
Martha H Roberts 2
Morris Roberts 5 MO
Sarah Lloyd 18
Margeret Willims 14
Simon Jones 34
John Hughes 22
Thomas Griffiths 51

Elizabeth, Lesley is searching for anybody who is a slight possibility. Mainly to see if it rings any bells with you.

People in those times weren't as pedantic about their place and date of birth. Morris may have been brought up in Denbighshire and assumed he was born there. It ain't necessarily so!

Just bear with us. Persistence will get you there in the end.

Ozi

P.S. Interesting what Vera found.

Marriage Indexes from North Wales bmd

MORRIS Morris HUGHES Mary 1877 Ffestiniog, Civil Marriage Gwynedd - Meirionnydd Area Register Office (Dolgellau) North Wales ARD/13/E186

ROBERTS Morris HUGHES Mary 1877 Ffestiniog, Civil Marriage Gwynedd - Meirionnydd Area Register Office (Dolgellau) North Wales ARD/13/E186

Reasons for two surnames

•Parent's surname differs from child's. For example, if a child is raised by the mother without the father being present, he or she may have taken the mother's surname, so when the parent's surname differs on the entry in the register, both surnames may be used in the index.

•Difference between the name as entered by the registrar and the name as signed.

.Doubt he was called Morris Morris. So probably the registrar transposed.

Vera

Morris Rberts was born in Denbighshire not Merionethshire and father Robert Morris was deceased at time of his marriage 1877. I suppose he could be a stepfather or a clerical error
Elizabeth

pm from Elizabeth

"hi ozibird
father,s name is given as robert morris on the marriage certificate of son morris roberts.Patryonymic system ?
elizabeth"

Good to see you replying on here now, Elizabeth. It makes things so much easier. All the info is together.

As for patronymic system, it doesn't seem to be the norm for the time you're searching. Children have the surname of their father.

I think Lesley is on the right track in that he might be a step-father, or perhaps the clerk writing the registration made a mistake.

Ozi

pm reply

Dear Lesley

Sorry this is not my ancestor,thank you for looking

Best Regards,Elizabeth

Elizabeth Jolly

:-) :-) :-)

Looks like the 1851 father is alive in 1881, Lesley

1881 Wales Census
Name: Robert Morris
Age: 66
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1815
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Elizabeth Morris
Gender: Male
Where born: Trawsfynydd, Merionethshire, Wales
Civil parish: Trawsfynydd
County/Island: Merionethshire
Country: Wales
Street Address: Cae Glas

Occupation: Farmer Of 60 Acres

Registration district: Festiniog
Sub-registration district: Festiniog

Piece: 5552
Folio: 79
Page Number: 4
Household Members:
Name Age
Robert Morris 66
Elizabeth Morris 68
Richard Morris 25
Margaret Jones 29
Elizabeth Morris 22
Robert Morris 8
John Jones 33

pm reply from Elizabeth to my 1881 census post.

"Yes this is the one . My grand father morris roberts b abt 1885 lived in Blaenau Ffestiniog. Thank you"

Elizabeth, please reply on the thread. I can see you're new to posting so you may not realize that more people may be trying to help than are replying. They need this information too.

Ozi

1851

MORRIS, Robert Head Married M 35 1816 Farmer Of 65 Acres Employing 1 Labourer
Trawsfynydd
Merionethshire VIEW
MORRIS, Elizabeth Wife Married F 38 1813 Farmers Wife
Trawsfynydd
Merionethshire VIEW
ROBERTS, Morris Son M 1 1850
Trawsfynydd
Merionethshire VIEW
WILLIAMS, Sarah Servant Unmarried F 14 1837 House Servant
Trawsfynydd
Merionethshire VIEW
LLOYD, Edward Servant Unmarried M 59 1792 Farm Labourer
Trawsfynydd
Merionethshire VIEW
Piece:
2512 Folio:
167 Page:
11 Registration District:
Festiniog

Civil Parish:
Trawsfynydd Municipal Borough:
Address:
Caeglas, Trawsfynydd County:
Merionethshire

Elizabeth, father Robert Morris and son Morris Roberts, is that so?

Ozi

Perhaps not.

1881 Wales Census
Name: Maurice D. Roberts
Age: 31
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1850
Relation: Head
Gender: Male
Where born: Denbighshire, Wales
Civil parish: Rhuddlan
County/Island: Flintshire
Country: Wales
Street Address: 14 East Parade

Occupation: Solicitor
Registration district: St Asaph
Sub-registration district: St Asaph

Piece: 5528
Folio: 55
Page Number: 5
Household Members:
Name Age
Maurice D. Roberts 31
Mary Ann Jones 34
Mary H. Jones 2

OBERTS, Robert Head Married M 39 1822 Farmer And Cattle Dealer
Bryneglwys VIEW
ROBERTS, Martha Wife Married F 40 1821
Llanarmon VIEW
ROBERTS, Margaret Daughter Unmarried F 18 1843
Llanarmon VIEW
ROBERTS, Robert Son Unmarried M 14 1847
Llanarmon VIEW
ROBERTS, Morris Son Unmarried M 10 1851
Llanarmon VIEW
ROBERTS, John Oded Son Unmarried M 8 1853
Llanarmon VIEW
ROBERTS, Louisa Adelaide Daughter F 1 1860
Mold VIEW
EDWARDS, Rowland Servant Unmarried M 26 1835 Waggoner
Mold VIEW
DEWEY, Pattrick Servant Unmarried M 15 1846 Cowman
Mold VIEW
LEWIS, Charlotte Servant Unmarried F 18 1843 House Servant
Mold VIEW
Piece:
4275 Folio:
32 Page:
2 Registration District:
Holywell

Civil Parish:
Municipal Borough:
Address:
Leeswood, Leeswood County:
Flintshire

1861

??????????????

LEWIS, Evan Head Married M 50 1811 Perpectual Curate Of Colwyn
Caron
Cardiganshire VIEW
LEWIS, Frances Southorpe Wife Married F 36 1825 Clergymans Wife
Burbage
Leicestershire VIEW
LEWIS, Sophia Southorpe Daughter F 11 1850 Scholar
Kinnersley
Shropshire VIEW
LEWIS, Anna Southorpe Daughter F 11 1850 Scholar
Kinnersley
Shropshire VIEW
VAUGHAN, William Wynne Boarder Unmarried M 17 1844 Scholar
Loppington
Shropshire VIEW
WILLIAMS, Arthur Boarder Unmarried M 13 1848 Scholar
Gwaenysgor
Flintshire VIEW
ROBERTS, Maurice Davies Boarder M 11 1850 Scholar
Denbigh
Denbighshire VIEW
JONES, John Parry Boarder Unmarried M 11 1850 Scholar
Denbigh
Denbighshire VIEW
WILLIAM, Herbert Morgan Boarder Unmarried M 10 1851 Scholar
Llanrhaeadr Ym Mochnant
Denbighshire VIEW
ROBERT, Hannah Servant Unmarried F 24 1837 Cook
Abergele
Denbighshire VIEW
JONES, Grace Servant Unmarried F 22 1839 Hosue Maid
Llanfair
Anglesey VIEW
OWEN, Mary Servant Unmarried F 22 1839 Waitress
Llandwrog
Caernarvonshire VIEW
Piece:
4358 Folio:
52 Page:
23 Registration District:
Conway

Civil Parish:
Colwyn Municipal Borough:
Address:
Uwch Y Don, Colwyn

Is this your man?

1881 Wales Census
Name: Morris Roberts
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Mary Roberts
Gender: Male
Where born: Denbighshire, Wales
Civil parish: Festiniog
County/Island: Merionethshire
Country: Wales
Street Address: Uwchlawffynon

Occupation: Labourer (Gen)

Registration district: Festiniog
Sub-registration district: Festiniog

Piece: 5550
Folio: 81
Page Number: 62
Household Members:
Name Age
Morris Roberts
Mary Roberts
Kate Hughes 10
Mary Roberts 3

Hi. I am trying to find the family of my gt gt grandfather Morris Roberts on the 1861 Wales census. He was born Denbighshire(place n/k) about 1850. I have him on the 1881 and 1901 census and have obtained his marriage cert. Date of marriage 19-2-1877 at Ffestiniog Reg Office. wife Mary Hughes widow age 27.father,s name Robert Morris (decd) occ agri labourer. Can you please help.