Find Ancestors

I had so much luck posting on here about one dead end I thought I'd see if anyone can help me out with another family mystery.

I'm trying to trace my great grandmother. On my grandfather's birth certificate she is recorded as Emily Rose Wiseman, formerly Richards. At the time (April 1918) Emily lived in Butt Street, Ludgershall.

My great grandfather was Herbert Wiseman, a soldier with the Australian Imperial Force, based at Perham Down in WW1, but I can find no evidence that Emily ever married Herbert, who went back to fight in Europe (and subsequently returned to Australia). Maybe she called herself Mrs Wiseman to avoid the stigma of being an unmarried mother?

However, it seems that she may already have been an unmarried mother, as my grandfather (Clarence Herbert Wiseman) remembers having a sister who was much older than him.

At some point Emily and her children moved to Warminster (I don't know when or why) and I believe they may have spent time in the workhouse.

Emily died when my grandfather was very young. My grandfather could never remember exactly how old he was when she died, but it would have been between 1923 and 1926. My grandfather then spent time in the workhouse and in care and never saw his older sister again.

I believe I may have found a death certificate for Emily, but I am not 100% certain it is her. It is for an Emily Rose Godfrey Wiseman who died in Harnwood Hospital, Salisbury from tuberculosis on 7 January 1925. The certificate lists her address as 1 West Parade, Warminster and records her as the widow of Herbert Wiseman, a general labourer. Her death was registered by her daughter, Ethel J Wiseman. Most of this fits with what I know (the time, living in Warminster, the 'husband' called Herbert & the fact that my grandfather always said his mother died of TB) but Herbert wasn't a general labourer and Emily wasn't a widow (although she probably didn't know what had become of Herbert)

I haven't been able to locate a birth record for an Emily Rose Richards.

Can anyone help with this or make any suggestions of how I can take this forward?

Many thanks

Sarah

Deaths Mar 1925 WISEMAN Emily R G 36 Salisbury 5a 204


???

Births Dec 1888 RICHARDS Emily Rosina Greenwich 1d 1004

Births Mar 1889 Richards Emily Rosa Forden 11b 175

The 'Godfrey' connection??

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages Mar 1907 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

GODFREY William James Pancras 1b 216
RICHARDS Emily Rose Pancras 1b 216


Andy

Re Rootgatherer find...


1891

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RICHARDS, Pryce Head Married M 32 1859 Farm Laborer
Welshpool
Montgomeryshire VIEW
RICHARDS, Eliza Wife Married F 31 1860
Kerry
Montgomeryshire VIEW
RICHARDS, Pryce Albert Son M 9 1882 Scholar
Welshpool
Montgomeryshire VIEW
RICHARDS, Thomas Son M 7 1884 Scholar
Welshpool
Montgomeryshire VIEW
RICHARDS, John Henry Son M 5 1886 Scholar
Welshpool
Montgomeryshire VIEW
RICHARDS, Emily Rosa Daughter F 2 1889 Scholar
Welshpool
Montgomeryshire VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Piece:
4598 Folio:
46 Page:
2 Registration District:
Forden

Civil Parish:
Pool Upper Municipal Borough:
Welshpool Address:
Sarny Bryn Caled, Berriew Road, Pool Upper, Welshpool County:
Montgomeryshire

Regards Vera

Thanks Andy, Thanks a certificate that's worth me gettiong hold of & which might open up some avenues.

Thanks Vera & rootgatherer. Another possibility to explore.

Just going with the flow here...
1911 census transcription details for: 20 Mortimer Market
RG14PN691 RG78PN24 RD9 SD2 ED8 SN153

Reg. District: St Pancras Sub District: South St Pancras
GODFREY, Rose Wife Married
5 years F 24 1887 Domestic Holborn
GODFREY, Ethel Daughter M 3 1908 Marylebone


Maureen

Herbert Wiseman's service record is available to read free on the National Archives of Australia website:

http://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/ListingReports/ItemsListing.aspx

When you get to this page, click on Digitised item

There are 44 pages. Haven't read them all but it does confirm he was at Perham Down.

I hope the link works!

Adeline

I think this is a more likely marriage for the Emily Rosina b Greenwich 1889:

Name: Emily Rosina Richards
Age: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1889
Spouse Name: James William White
Spouse Age: 27
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 15 Nov 1914
Parish: Deptford St Nicholas
Borough: Greenwich
Father Name: George Richards
Spouse Father Name: William Javid White
Register Type: Parish Register

Birth of daughter

Births Dec 1907 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

GODFREY Ethel Iris Marylebone 1a 496


Andy

Name: Emily Rosina Richards
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: 19 September 1988
Baptism Date: 7 Oct 1888
Father's Name: George Richards, Drover
Mother's Name: Elizabeth Richards
Parish or Poor Law Union: Deptford St Paul
Borough: Lewisham
Register Type: Parish Registers
Address: 19 Crossfield Lane

Maureen

That census return is really useful thanks. I had been wondering why I hadn't been able to locate Emily Richards in 1911. That & her marriage cert to William Godfrey could be really useful.

Thanks

Sarah

Another Godfrey / Richards child?

Births Mar 1913 Godfrey Female Richards Marylebone 1a 845


The Rose Godrey on the 1911 census that has been posted by MaureenNY says she has been married for 5 years and had 3 children, 2 living and one had died. Wonder where the other living child is?

Oh! Good spot on that one rg!

Sarah- the informant on the death cert:Ethel J Wiseman-is her middle initial very clearly a "J" and not a fancy "I"? Just wondering if we should eliminate the 1911 people or not...
Maureen

Guessing:
Deaths Jun 1907
Godfrey Emily Rose 0 Pancras 1b 44

Births Jun 1910
GODFREY William James Marylebone 1a 511

1911 census transcription details for: St Pancras Infirmary Poor Law, ST PANCRAS INFIRMARY (POOR LAW)
RG14PN775 RD9 SD4 ED30 SN9999

Reg. District: St Pancras Sub District: North St Pancras
Parish: St Pancras Enum. District: 30
Address: Dartmouth Park Hill Highgate N
County: London
GODFREY, William M 0 (11 MONTHS) 1911 London Marylebone


Maureen

Great stuff Maureen! That looks like the missing kiddiewinks.

:-D :-D :-D
Kiddiewinks?? :-D :-D :-D

Maureen

Very well found Maureen.

To me the middle initial of Ethel looks most like a J, but I wouldn't rule out it being a fancy I.

If this is the same Emily and Ethel and they moved to Wiltshire, I wonder what happened to young William Godfrey.

There do seem to be a lot of similarities between the 2 families. Too many to be a coincidence???? I think I need to get to the Wiltshire records office at some point and see if I can find any records of them at the workhouse in Warminster.

Sorry Maureen, kiddiewinks meaning children. A bit nicer than calling them baby goats (kids)!

Just made me chuckle. Such a sweet term. :-)

Good luck,Sarah. It will be interesting to see the outcome of this.

Best,
Maureen