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Can any body help me please, Ellen Trotman b.1872 married her cousin William Morgan Trotman b.1871, in Bridgend Wales. I am having a great problem finding out who Williams parents were. As they were cousins you would think that it would be easy, by just looking at Ellen's other Aunts and Uncles. I have tried FREE SEARCH, yes they do give their marriage date, but I need to connect his family to mine. If you can help it would be appreciated. Thank you all.

Keith

The marriage certificate will have his father's name on it.

1881 Wales Census
Morgan W. Trotman
Age: 9 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1872
Relation: Grandson
Father's Name: Morgan W. Trotman Mother's name: Margaret Trotman
Gender: Male Where born: St Brides, Glamorgan, Wales
Civil parish: St Brides Major
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Street Address: Seamouth
Occupation: Scholar
Registration district: Bridgend Sub-registration district: Bridgend
ED, institution, or vessel: 1 Piece: 5331 Folio: 6 Page Number: 6

Catherine Evans 66 head
John Evans 29 son
Margaret Trotman 35 dau
Morgan W. Trotman 34 son-in-law coachman
Charles J. Trotman 11 grnson
Morgan W. Trotman 9
Margaret B. Trotman 2

Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 5331; Folio: 6; Page: 6; GSU roll: 1342284.

Might he be Morgan William??

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
about Morgan William Trotman Name: Morgan William Trotman
Date of registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1872
Registration district: Bridgend
Inferred County: Glamorgan
Volume: 11a
Page: 509

1871 England Census
Morgan W Trottman Age: 24 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1847
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Margaret Trottman
Gender: Male Where born: Bridgend, Wales Civil parish: Newland
Ecclesiastical parish: Newland All Saints
Town: Coleford County/Island: Gloucestershire
Country: England Registration district: Monmouth Sub-registration district: Coleford
ED, institution, or vessel: 2 Household schedule number: 136
Piece: 5298 Folio: 37 Page Number: 27
Morgan W Trottman 24
Margaret Trottman 25
Charles J Trottman 1
Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 5298; Folio: 37; Page: 27; GSU roll: 848430.

1861 Wales Census
Morgan W Trotman Age: 13 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1848
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Charles Trotman Mother's name: Susannah Trotman
Gender: Male Where born: Bridgend, Glamorgan, Wales
Civil Parish or Township: Cowbridge
Town: Cowbridge County/Island: Glamorgan Country: Wales
Registration district: Bridgend Sub-registration district: Cowbridge
ED, institution, or vessel: 1 Household schedule number: 199 Piece: 4075 Folio: 22
Page Number: 37

Charles Trotman 57 groom Uley, Gloucestershire,
Susannah Trotman 57 laundress Uley, Gloucestershire,
George H Trotman 16
Morgan W Trotman 13

Source Citation: Class: RG9; Piece: 4075; Folio: 22; Page: 37; GSU roll: 543230.

It seems he preferred his middle name.........William?

??
1901 Wales Census
about William Trotman Name: William Trotman
Age in 1901: 30
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1871
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Ellen Trotman
Gender: Male
Where born: Southend On S, Glamorgan, Wales

Civil parish: Oldcastle
Ecclesiastical parish: Coyty and Nolton St Mary
Town: Bridgend
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Household Members: Name Age
William Trotman 30
Ellen Trotman 23
Morgan Trotman 3
Ernest Trotman 1
Henry Cray 42 (Boarder)
Bohus E Bouldon 26 (Boarder)

1911 census - household transcription
Person: TROTMAN, Morgan
Address: Pant St Brides Major


TROTMAN, William Head Married M 39 1872 General Labour Glamorgan St Brides Major VIEW
TROTMAN, Ellen Wife Married
14 years F 34 1877 Glamorgan St Brides Major VIEW
TROTMAN, Morgan Son M 12 1899 Glamorgan St Brides Major VIEW
TROTMAN, Earst Son M 11 1900 Glamorgan St Brides Major VIEW
TROTMAN, Burty Son M 8 1903 Glamorgan St Brides Major VIEW
TROTMAN, Annie Daughter F 6 1905 Glamorgan St Brides Major VIEW
TROTMAN, Sammeul Son M 4 1907 Glamorgan St Brides Major VIEW
TROTMAN, Millie Daughter F 3 1908 Glamorgan St Brides Major VIEW
TROTMAN, Alies Daughter F 0 (8 MONTHS) 1911 Glamorgan St Brides Major VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG14 Piece:
32589 Reference:
RG14PN32589 RG78PN1861 RD591 SD4 ED21 SN12

Registration District:
Bridgend Sub District:
Bridgend Enumeration District:
21 Parish:
St Brides Major

Address:
Pant St Brides Major County:
Glamorganshire
(7 children born and living)

Married under the name of "William"

Marriages Mar 1898 (>99%)
TROTMAN Ellen Bridgend 11a 889
TROTMAN William Bridgend 11a 889

Buy the marriage cert.....................

How do you know they were cousins, if you don't know who his parents were?

Are you guessing again?

Thank you so much Patchem & Prickly Holly, I think maybe he called himself Morgan rather than William. I can start some more intensive research now. As I have experienced in the past many people tended to use their seond name.

Flick, if you have problem helping me, I would prefer that you did not answer my messages.I thought that you were one of those helpful volunteers, who would help people like me find their ancestors, all you seem to do is to advise me where to buy a certificate.

Keith

Keith,
As Flick says, you need to buy the marriage certificate as that can save so much guessing and going off on the wrong tracks.
We are all helping you, and my advice also is that you always buy the marriage and birth certificates so that you can systematically work your way back.
Just using the censuses mean you miss out on vital information that could contradict what you believe to be correct.
Pat

Pat, I completely agree with what you say, but Im afraid I have to use the pensioner's card here. Ten pounds and ten there, can add up to a lot over a year, the type of information that you people seem to be able to find, is far more than any certificate can tell me, plus I value all your expert input whatever it is, and most of the time you all seem to be very accurate with your information. Im not a grumpy old person by any means, and I think that genealogy is a great hobby to spent the sunset years of one's life.

Keith

So is this Ellen.
Ellen Trotman born @ 1878/9 to John Trotman 1842 Woodford Berkeley Gloucestershire died 1927 and Esther nee Painter born 1847 Hankerton Wiltshire died Bridgend 1887.They had a daughter Millie BROWN Trotman 1886.

John then married Sarah Jane in Glamorgan and had 5 children with her.She died 1915.

Johns parents
1841 Berkeley D3>5
Henry lewis age 80
Mary Trotman 45 = 1796 widow of William Trotman
Mary trotman 1817 she is with George Brown in 1851.
George Trotman 1836 son of mary 1817
William Trotman 1838 son of mary 1817.

1851 Alkington D5b > 41
Mary Trotman 1792 same as on 1841 census
William Trotman 1838 Grandson.

1851 Alkington D5b > 3 Gloucestershire
George Brown 1784
George Brown 1817 son of above.
Mary Brown 1817 (Trotman)
John Brown 1843 (Trotman)
Joseph Brown 5
Mary Brown 3
Ellen Brown 2
George Trotman 1836 off 1841 census.

Mary Trotman didn't marry George Brown until 26/12/1860 although a tree says all the children with the Brown name were to George Brown.
There is also a photo of John Brown Trotman and his 2nd wife Sarah and their children on Ancestry.co.uk.

Maryb

Hi Mary,
Please do not take offence, but this is my own family and over the last nearly two hundred years there has been a terrible mistake made in the records of my family. It would take at least a full hour to tell you what went wrong, It has taken me along with many GR friends, people like you to sort this problem out. Many wills and historic documents have been found with absolute proof of what happened to my family. Although the census for 1841 appears to be correct, I can tell you that Henry Lewis was not John Trotman's father, John's parents Mary Lewis Trotman b.1817 in Woodford and her second partner George Brown jr b.1817. What you say about Mary's marriage to George Brown is correct and I do have the Photograph and the only other person to have that photo at the moment is E. G.
The first part of your message about Ellen and Esther Painter is correct, but where everybody went wrong is by assuming Henry Lewis was Mary Lewis's husband. The following is what hardly anyone knows, the William Trotman b.1838 is my Great Grandfather and his father was Anthony Savage my gg grandmothers first partner or boyfriend, the records office have refused to change the record dispite the recently found documents. Give my an address Mary and I will send you the book. Thank you again for your interest, which has given me a chance to inform many people of the facts about this very misleading 1841 census return.The Mary Trotman b.1796 was a Mary Knight.

Keith Trotman direct descendant.

The reason I asked if you were guessing.................

http://www.genesreunited.co.nz/boards.page/board/ancestors/thread/1293086

And I'm a pensioner, too, but I don't play on it for sympathy

Keith I didn't say Mary lewis Trotman was the daughter of Henry lewis,I only put his name as he was on the 1841 census with Mary 1817 and her mum Mary 1796 widow of William Trotman.

Maryb.

Hi Mary,
Forgive me if I gave the impression that you were suggesting that Henry Lewis had married the widow of William Trotman. Henry had married
Martha Trotman on the 31st August 1822, and did not marry again, however all his children with Martha were illegitimate consequently she kept the Trotman name. As I said earlier Mary Knight was the wife of the William Trotman b.1792 and the reason why she was a widow is because William had been sentenced to death for stealing nine gold sovereigns in 1831 from a Mrs Martha Haywood, however his life was spared and he was to be transported to Tasmania, but whilst waiting in a hulk off the Essex coast he caught an unknown ailment and was not allowed to sail for fear of infecting the rest of the prisoners.
Thank you again Mary for your interest.

Keith.

No problem keith.

How was Ellen Trotman 1878 cousin to William Morgan /Morgan William Trowman 1872.

He was registered as Morgan William Trotman

Maryb.

Spot on Mary, thank you so much, I do believe that cross referencing is important with all searches.

Keith.