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Thank you I am now sending for the birth certificate. I have got Alice as 14 years of age in 1881 living with her parents, could the census be 4 years out as on your 1891 census Alice is down as 20.
Hopefully the birth certificate will answer a few questions when it arrives.

Civil Registration event: Birth
Print Close
Name: HUMPHREYS, Arthur James
Registration district: West Derby
County: Lancashire
Year of registration: 1894
Quarter of registration: Apr-May-Jun
Mother's maiden name: Not available before 1911 Q3
Volume no: 8B
Page no: 318



The above birth would appear to be of the same person as in the record below that Kucinta originally found.


Merchant Navy Seamen 1835-1941
Print Close
Last name: HUMPHREYS
First names: Arthur James
Age:
Day of birth: 2
Month of birth: April
Year of birth: 1894
Place of birth: Liverpool
County/country of birth: Lancashire
Card type: CR10
Discharge number: 726676
Identity certificate no.: 838182
Series: BT350
Date range: 1918-1921
Piece number:

Could this be the death of John Humphreys b 1868 ?



Civil Registration event: Death
Print Close
Name: HUMPHREYS, John
Registration district: West Derby
County: Lancashire
Year of registration: 1902
Quarter of registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
Age at death: 34
Volume no: 8B
Page no: 294

Is this John & Alice in 1891?

1891 England Census about Alice Humphreys
Name: Alice Humphreys
Age: 20
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1871
Relation: Visitor
Gender: Female
Where born: Liverpool, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Stretford
Ecclesiastical parish: St Bride
Town: Stretford
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image

Registration district: Barton Upon Irwell
Sub-registration district: Stretford
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 3158
Folio: 34
Page Number: 13
Household Members:
Name Age
William T Ivory 42
Alice Ivory 42
Elenor Ivory 17
Thurza Ivory 16
Charlotte Ivory 10
Charles Ivory 7
Elsie Edith Ivory 2
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>John Humphreys 23
>>>>>>>>>>>>>.>>>>Alice Humphreys 20
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>George Humphreys 1
Emma Symons 32

Yes will get certificates for the merchant seaman Arthur to confirm its him,the photo on his records does look like the same man as the photo I have of him.
Have found him living with his grandparents John and Marion Crosbie, but can't find who his mother was yet.His dad is John Humphreys and there is a John Humphreys who married an Alice Crosbie that seems to fit but on their census when Arthur was alive they say they have 4 children all named living with them, Arthur was with his grandad at the time so it should have said 5 children if he was their son?

Hi Susan


We havent found him at all until you buy certificates?

Looks like we have found him, thank you to everyone for your quick response and help.

Susan,

let me know if you want me to pm you the merchant seaman card with the photo of Arthur James Humphreys born 1894 Liverpool - just in case he bears any resemblance to your father.

EDIT - I sent it anyway. :-)

Census 1881 John and Marion Crosbie definitely have a daughter called Alice, who could be the Alice Crosbie who may have married John Humphreys as I posted previously:

Census 1881:

Name: Marion Crosbie
Age: 38
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1843
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: John Crosbie
Gender: Female
Where born: Liverpool, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Everton
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England


Registration district: West Derby
Sub-registration district: Everton
ED, institution, or vessel: 38
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 3661
Folio: 56
Page Number: 53
Household Members: Name Age
John Crosbie 40
Marion Crosbie 38
James Crosbie 18
>>>Alice Crosbie 14
Emily E. Crosbie 11
George W. Crosbie 9
Mary J. Crosbie 7
John H. Crosbie 5
Alfred Crosbie 2
Margaret Hillman 12
Mary Hillman 9



Marriages Dec 1885
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>Crosbie Alice Liverpool 8b 143
FITZSIMONS Elizabeth Marie Liverpool 8b 143
>>>>Humphreys John Liverpool 8b 143
WALKER Philip Allan Liverpool 8b 143

'My' Arthur James Humphreys had moved in with his grandparents by 1901, so what had happened to parents (John and Alice?)


Name: Arthur James Humpheys
Age in 1901: 6
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1895
Relation: Grandson
Gender: Male
Where born: Everton, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Hope
Ecclesiastical parish: St Cynfarch
Town: Bridge End
County/Island: Flintshire
Country: Wales


Registration district: Chester
Sub-registration district: Hawarden
ED, institution, or vessel: 13
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 126
Piece: 3379
Folio: 101
Page Number: 21

Household Members: Name Age
John Crosbie 61
Marion Crosbie 58
William Crosbie 19
Marion Crosbie 16
>>>Arthur James Humpheys 6

Deaths Mar 1946 (>99%)
-----------------------------------------------------------
Humphreys John H 76 Bromley 2a 1124

(if this is above John Henry 1901, then a Probate entry to Arthur James Humphreys, Inspector of taxes, as mentioned in Sarah's posting above)


So not deceased, as on 1920 Marriage Cert...Hmm, something amiss, lol.

Chris :)

Reaching a bit, as I can't find Arthur James Humphreys born 1894 in Liverpool, in 1901 with his parents.

Census 1911:

Address: 86 Elmdale Road Fazakerley Liverpool County: Lancashire

CROSBIE, John Head Widower M 71 1840 Retired Ship Smith Lancs Liverpool
CROSBIE, Marion Daughter Single F 26 1885 Lancs Liverpool
>>>HUMPHREYS, Arthur James Grandson Single M 17 1894 Wood Sawyer Lancs Liverpool



Could this be the marriage of this Arthur James' parents: (giving him a father named John, as per the original posting)

Marriages Dec 1885
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>Crosbie Alice Liverpool 8b 143
FITZSIMONS Elizabeth Marie Liverpool 8b 143
>>>>Humphreys John Liverpool 8b 143
WALKER Philip Allan Liverpool 8b 143


In which case Arthur James could well be this chap:

Marriages Dec 1917
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Humphreys Arthur J Snodgrass W.Derby 8b 637
Snodgrass Minnie Humphreys W. Derby 8b 637


One possible child born of the marriage, which fits with what Susan said about AJH being previously married with a child:

Births Dec 1919
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Humphreys Sydney R Snodgrass Liverpool 8b 199

If he fibbed about his age on the second marriage, there is this merchant seaman record:


Last name:HUMPHREYS
First names:Arthur James
Age:
Day of birth:2
Month of birth:April
Year of birth:1894
Place of birth:Liverpool
County/country of birth:Lancashire
Card type:CR10
Discharge number:726676
Identity certificate no.:838182
Series:BT350
Date range:1918-1921
Piece number:

There are 3 images to go with the same discharge number. One has a photo.

He had dark hair, brown eyes and a fresh complexion. Height 5 ft 4 ". Top of first finger right hand was missing.

Hair looks wavy.

Probably too old to be your man though.

Might be worth checking the electoral registers for him - perhaps might shed some light on who his previous wife was? Or what happened after he and your nan went their seperate ways.

Definitely worth obtaining his service records - might have some information in.

Did the marriage have to be annulled before your nan remarried? or did that not need to happen given the marriage wasn't legal?!?

The Lewisham Arthur James Humphreys married there to Gertrude Nellie Vessey Taylor in 1921 and lists father as John Henry Humphreys as father and Arthur's occupation as Assistant Inspector of Taxes.

Have you found a death record for him at all? Presumably if he did go to prison, he wouldn't have served life and been let out at some point - perhaps remarried?

Have you tried alternate spellings for the surname Humphreys in your search of prison records etc?

Did he serve in WW1?. If he did, his 1st marriage could have been from the result of a fling while on leave. It happened a lot.

Hi Susan....welcome to the boards


He would have to have been very young to have been married before. It could just be a family story?

If he did marry before Beatrice, its likely its one of these:


Marriages Jun 1913
----------------------------------------------------------
Humphreys Arthur J Forster W. Ham 4a 459


Marriages Sep 1915
----------------------------------------------------------
Humphreys Arthur J Widger Fareham 2b 1723


Marriages Dec 1917
--------------------------------------------------------------
Humphreys Arthur J Snodgrass W.Derby 8b 637


Marriages Jun 1918
------------------------------------------------------------------
Humphreys Arthur J Roffey Watford 3a 1516


What was the occupation of Arthur and his father on the marriage certificate?

Name Humphreys, Arthur James
Official Number: F13698
Place of Birth: Lewisham, London
25 April 1897 ADM 188/587


Name Humphreys, Arthur James
Official Number: J20800
Place of Birth: Hughenden, Buckinghamshire
26 March 1895 ADM 188/688

(he could be one of above perhaps, Naval Records, £3.50 to download, below link)


http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/browse-refine.asp?CatID=15&searchType=browserefine&pagenumber=1&query=*&queryType=1

Chris :)


1901
HUMPHREYS, John H Head Married M 31 1870 Civil Service Clerk
Greenwich
HUMPHREYS, Ada Wife Married F 31 1870
New Cross
HUMPHREYS, Arthur J Son Single M 3 1898
Lewisham
Piece: 554
Folio: 113
Page: 3
Registration District: Lewisham
Civil Parish: Lewisham
Municipal Borough:
Address: 107, Algernon Road, Lewisham
County: London

My nan Beatrice May Webb met Arthur James Humphreys whilst working at the RNAS airship base in Pulham. I have a marriage certificate for them, he said he was '23 seaman quoting father John Humphreys decd'. They married on October 4th 1920 at Pulham St Mary. My dad was born 15th September 1921 and had memories of Arthur collecting him from school in Pulham St Mary. Word is Arthur was caught as a bigamist (already married with a child) and went to prison. I have searched the prison records, court sessions, justice minutes and the local papers in Norwich, but can't find anything. My Nan married again on 1st February 1928 so I have been looking between 1920-1928.
Is there any way of checking the names and employment details of people who worked at the Pulham Airstation?