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Civil registration event: Birth
View the original image

Name: MONTGOMERY, Annie

Registration district: [?] Bolton

County: Lancashire

Year of registration: 1901

Quarter of registration: Oct-Nov-Dec

Mother's maiden name: Not available before 1911 Q3

Volume no:[?]8C

Page no:[?]479

I remember this from somewhere

DENTON, William Head Married M 26 1885 Moulding Shop Laborer Lancs Bolton VIEW
DENTON, Alice Maud Wife Married7 years F 25 1886 Liverpool VIEW
MONTGOMERY, Annie Neaise Single F 9 1902 Lancs Bolton VIEW
MONTGOMERY, George Son Single M 7 1904 Lancs Bolton VIEW
MONTGOMERY, John Son Single M 2 1909 Lancs Bolton VIEW
HANER, Ruth Lodger Single F 17 1894 Lancs Bolton VIEW


RG number: RG14 Piece: 23407 Reference: RG14PN23407 RG78PN1365 RD461 SD7 ED23 SN317 Registration District: Bolton Sub District: Little Bolton Enumeration District: 23 Parish: Bolton Address: 67 Lark Street Bolton Lancashire County: Lancashire

1901 ????????????

1901 England Census about Alice M Montgomery
Name: Alice M Montgomery
Age: 15
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1886
Relation: Daughter
Mother's Name: Alice Montgomery
Gender: Female
Where born: Liverpool, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Bolton
Ecclesiastical parish: St John
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image

Registration district: Bolton
Sub-registration district: Little Bolton
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 131
Piece: 3618
Folio: 85
Page Number: 22
Household Members:
Name Age
Alice Montgomery 36
Alice M Montgomery
alice the mother is a widow

Hi there!
Thanks for your time... I just want to reiterate as I know there is a lot of info to digest...

Maddie -The birth cert information you suggest is the one I already obtained which stated a different father (it says John) compared to her marriage cert which says William.

Astra - Yes i also located this census which i searched via the birth certificate above .as they both have the same address.

However, the issue is the birth cert .... it has a different fathers forename so how can i be certain i am researching the right person? I cant locate any other possible birth matches either.

Best wishes
Lynn

Lynn..Cant access 1901 census to cross check this but worth having a look if you can...


name: Montgomery
Census event date: 31 Mar 1901
gender: Female age: 0 relationship to head of household: Daughter
birthplace: Bolton,
Bolton sub-district: Halliwell
ecclesiastical parish: Halliwell St Pauls
civil parish: Bolton

That will be this one

MONTGOMERY, Henry Head Married M 31 1870 Stone Mason's Labourer
Bolton, Lancashire VIEW
MONTGOMERY, Hannah Wife Married F 26 1875
Bolton, Lancashire VIEW
MONTGOMERY, Selina Daughter F 6 1895
Bolton, Lancashire VIEW
MONTGOMERY, Thomas Son M 2 1899
Bolton, Lancashire VIEW
MONTGOMERY Daughter F 0 (6 MOS) 1901
Bolton, Lancashire VIEW

Piece: 3608 Folio: 29 Page: 50 Registration District: Bolton Civil Parish: Bolton Municipal Borough: Address: 12, Rossini Street, Bolton County: Lancashire

On the original image it looks as though she is called Lady!

I'm not so sure that Alice Maud was born a Montgomery. I can't locate a satisfactory birth registration for her.

I keep coming back to this one. I can't find a marriage for them nor can I find a birth.

GENNEY, John Head Married M 30 1861 Plasterer
Watton, Liverpool VIEW
GENNEY, Alice Wife Married F 25 1866
Watton, Liverpool VIEW
GENNEY, Alice M F 5 1886
Watton, Liverpool VIEW
GENNEY, Charles H M 3 1888
Watton, Liverpool


Piece: 3118 Folio: 116 Page: 28 Registration District: Bolton Civil Parish: Little Bolton Municipal Borough: Bolton Address: 27, Dawson Lane, Little Bolton, Bolton County: Lancashire

Note the Census for Alice Maud and William has "3 Montgomery" children down were they all niece and nephews of Alice Maud...?

Annie
George
John...

No the other two are mistranscribed. They are Dentons

1901 census
Not convinced over 1901 census connection - it does look like Lady and I do have her marriage cert which says her father is WILLIAM montgomery, so there is no link to be made.

I do have Alice Maud Montgomerys marriage cert - it says she is a spinster and her father;s name is John, so i dont think there is a connection to the geney family. Though granted he is called john, it is in Bolton. It just doesnt add up

Maybe its just a dead end and i shall never know. Thanks anyway guys. At least I know I wasnt going crazy missing something obvious!

Lynn x

Coming back for another look at this and trying to figure out the Genney connection. Looking at the original it is difficult to tell whether it is Gorney, Gurney or what. I re-checked the births and found this.

Births Dec 1885 (>99%)
Gomery Alice Maud Liverpool 8b 154


Births Jun 1887 (>99%)
GOMERY Charles Henry West Derby 8b 316


This will be the marriage

Marriages Sep 1881 (>99%)
DICKSON Elizabeth W. Derby 8b 708
EVANS Arthur Evan W Derby 8b 708
>>GOMERY John West Derby 8b 708
>>HOBBIN Alice W Derby 8b 708


Alice's birth maybe

Births Mar 1865 (>99%)

Hobin Alice Liverpool 8b 102

It's a good name for mistranscription

HOBEN, Cathrine Head F 68 1803 Ireland VIEW
HOBEN, Alice Grandchild F 6 1865 Lancashire VIEW
CONWAY, Ellen Boarder F 30 1841 Lancashire VIEW
DAILY, Bridget Boarder F 50 1821 Lancashire VIEW

Piece: 3767 Folio: 9 Page: 13 Registration District: Liverpool Civil Parish: Liverpool Municipal Borough: Liverpool Address: Maquire Street, Liverpool County: Lancashire

and John

GOMERY, John Head M 45 1826 Lancashire VIEW
GOMERY, Elizabeth Wife F 37 1834 Lancashire VIEW
GOMERY, Samuel Son M 19 1852 Lancashire VIEW
GOMERY, George Son M 13 1858 Lancashire VIEW
>>GOMERY, John Son M 11 1860 Lancashire VIEW
GOMERY, Mary A Daughter F 5 1866 Lancashire VIEW
GOMERY, Charles Son M 0 1871 Lancashire VIEW
ROBERTS, John Visitor M 23 1848 Wales VIEW
ROBERTS, Alice Visitor F 21 1850 Shropshire VIEW
ROBERTS, Elizabeth Daughter F 0 1871 Lancashire VIEW

Piece: 3819 Folio: 74 Page: 43 Registration District: West Derby Civil Parish: Everton Municipal Borough: Liverpool Address: Creswick Street, Everton, Liverpool County: Lancashire

The question is why did Alice change her name to Montgomery after the death of John. I am sure that it is the same Alice as in the 1901 posted by Maddie.and the fact that John is a plasterer and they are living in Bolton just convinces me more that we have the correct family.

This information would mean that Annie who is noted as Niece on the 1911 could only belong to Alice herself before she married or Alice Senior or Charles Henry who I can't locate anywhere after the 1901. Who was the mother noted as on the birth certificate you bought for Annie with father John?

Hi, It says the mother is Alice Montgomery formerly Alice Hobin on the birth cert..

The address matches this 1901 census
RG number: RG13, Piece: 3618, Folio: 85, Page: 22
Reg. District: Bolton, Sub District: Little Bolton, Parish: Bolton, Enum. District: 4, Ecclesiastical District: St John, City/Municipal Borough:
Address: 1, Back Cross Street, Bolton, County: Lancashire

MONTGOMERY, Alice Head Widow F 36 1865 Rag Sorter, born Liverpool, Lancashire
MONTGOMERY, Alice R Daughter Single F 15 1886 Sapper On
(Cotton Mill), born Liverpool, Lancashire

so only variation is that it say Alice 1886 was born in liverpool, the R could be an M. these two pieces of evidence are linked but uncertain if it links to my ancestor because of the discrepency with father's name on birth cert being John and not William as shown on marriage cert.

I searched Lancashire bmd, free bmd registers on 'find my past website'and no marriage located between hobin and montgomery. Not sure if latter day saints would have a record????

there is the marriage highlighted in previous post of hobin and gommery in 1881 in west derby.

i AM JUST CONFUSED
:-\

Ah so she belonged to Alice Senior then. That's good in one respect but it means that we won't know who her actual father is. Alice was a widow in the 1901 and I can't find her in 1911 but she may be living with someone and have assumed his name.

The marriage which I posted earlier is above and names John Gomery and Alice Hobbin in September Quarter 1881.

I'm certain that this is your family. It's confusing with the name changes from Gomery to Montgomery and I don't know why that happened but everything fits.

EDIT: When I looked at the original image of the 1901 census I think it is an M and not an R.

Hi again,
Just so I am clear and not getting muddled ... is the summary below as follows?

1) I do actually have the right birth cert afterall for annie montgomery in 1901 bolton... right?
2) Therefore the 1901 census at Back cross street is also correct family
3)We think a name change from Gomery with the addition of Mont on the front to make Montgomery occurred after the 1901 census, presumably because the child Annie 1901 , was born to Alice Montgomery snior (nee hobbin) b1865 sometime after her husbands John's death.
4) Alice (Mont)Gomery formally hobin must have become a widow between 1887-1901 (last child born is charles and she is a widow in 1901 census)
5) The relationship between Alice Maud Montgomery 1885/6 and Annie Montgommery was not Aunty and niece but sisters.
6) in connection to point 4) the only other possible theory (which can not be identified through records searches) is that Alice snr (Mont)Gomery formally hobin .... possibly could have had a relationship with her brother in law after her husbands death and he was called william. This would infact mean that annie montgomery 1901s marriage cert saying william is corrct and that alice maud b1885 was her niece afterall. But did john gommery have a brother called william?
7) There must have been a reason why Alice maud 1885 ended up bringing up annie from 1911 and i can only think that it is because alice snr died between 1901-1911 or she remarried and a child from a previous marriage was not acceptable
8) If annie montgomery 1901 was bor in june 1901 but the census was taken on 31 march 1901, it means annie technically should have been recorded in the 1901 census


what are your thoughts on this? also, I was going to add this and print it off as a family tree but as it is so confusing - do you think i should input it in or leave it out, should i record.....

alice mauds hobbin b 1865 Marries in 1881 to John Gomery b 1865
children alice maud Mont(gomery)b 1885, charles 1887

alice maudeGomery (formally) hobbin and William Unknown have child Annie 1901

Best wishes and sincerest thanks for all your efforts. There is no way i could have worked this out
kindest regards
Lynn x



Further searches
cant locates charles 1887 in census/death registers
cant locate John gommery's death before 1901
Annie as under 1 years in 1901 :-)

OK. I will follow your numbering system.

1. Yes you do

2. Yes it is.

3. Yes I think so. Although I am not sure if John died or just left and Alice just declared herself a widow for the sake of propriety. I cannot locate a definite death for him.

4. Yes

5. Half sisters as we do not know if they had the same father.

6. No I think you are out on this. I think when Annie married she used her Uncle/brother in law's first name and occupation and changed the surname to Montgomery. It is a common situation and the more you research the more you will find this out. She would probably have no idea who her real father was and neither would her sister Alice Maud. She wouldn't have wanted to be unable to name a father when she married so I think this is an invention rather than a fact. It happened a great deal when illegitimate children were married. It is very doubtful if there ever was a William Montgomery in Alice Seniors life. The term Niece can be used to cover a multitude of sins and often was so I really wouldn't dwell on that and William maybe didn't understand what his relationship to her was.

7. We don't know when Alice Maud took Annie in. We know she is with her in 1911 but we don't know when she arrived. If we could find any other records for Alice either marriage or death it may give us an idea.

8. If Annie was born in June how could she be on a census taken in March??

It is your tree and entirely up to you what you record on it. If it were me I would want every last detail and I would keep researching until I had proved every last bit of it.

If you have any more questions just ask and I will do my best to help and thank you for your thanks but it was a pleasure.

Astra
x

Thanks so much anyway. You must have a lot of patience. All the best. Lynn