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Hello Sylvia, i have had alot of help on my other thread with this too and after looking at what i all had last night and along with help from Andrea(other) and talking to my mum on the phone i have decided that the family i had with John and Ellen is the wrong one...yes on Thomas marriage certificate he was a book-keeper, mum told me last night that on one of Thomas's daughters marriage certificate(my mums cousins mum,she has certificate and looked at it for me) it says that he was a shipyard labourer,that was in abt 1931ish, so he has done both clerking and labouring, what you have found out about the sawyer and in prison i have found too,that was a Thomas with mother Ellen i think. Have worked out that the birth certificate that has been sent is the wrong one, explaination as to what happened and why i now know its the wrong one is on my other thread '1871 look Up PLEASE!'may thanks for your help and advice, most appreciated Kaz

Kaz, I think you have to start again, and work back very slowly and carefully. I've just been looking at what you have. Thomas Riley born ca 1874, Newcastle, Northumberland. He is listed as Book Keeper on his marriage certificate. Then you find him as a Gun (not Geen) Machinist in 1901 In 1891 there is a Thomas Riley with father John in Carlisle. Thomas is down as a Sawyers Laborer, and John is a Bricklayers Laborer In 1881, the same family is in Carlisle. John is a Bricklayers Laborer, and Thomas is a Scholar. Then there is the Thomas Riley in prison .................... I really feel that his age is wrong, and his occupation is sooooooooooo different. I am not convinced that you have the right Thomas, nor that you even have the SAME Thomas in these censuses. He is a Sawyers Laborer who becomes a Gun Machinist, who becomes a Book Keeper. Sylvia

Nudge still trying to work it out!

Morning Andrea, On Thomas's marriage certificate he was a book-keeper and his father John was a Leatherworks caretaker at the time. On Thomas's birth cetificate his father was a plasterer's labourer, proving to be hard to find in 1901, many thanks Kaz

What is Thomas's profession when he got married? And what did his father do?

Hello Sylvia,sorry i missed you last night i went off to bed with my head spinning,lol. I came across Thomas as a Geen machinist age 28 in 1901 cencus, living in Barrow in Furness, also came across the A M prison at 28 which would make his birth year abt 1865, maybe year a misprint???? I have Thomas's marriage certificate(29/7/1907) he was 30 and she 21 from my mum, on it Dora is down as Leathead, their first son John was born out of wedlock(making me think yes he was married before and had an affair??) on their first daughters birth certificate(my gran,5/9/1908) she is down as Leathart. I have Thomas in Newcastle at birth with his parents and then they go to Carlisle and have 9 more children,Thomas is with them up until 1891 at the age of 17 then i cant find him apart from what i found last night in Barrow in Furness which states he was married, so was he married before he married Dora Leathart? Do you think that this Thomas is my man,if so how do i go about finding out his first wife/children(if any)? Many thanks for your time, Kaz

Let us know the name of his father on the marriage certificate, and we'll see what we can find!

Kaz, Also i came across in the 1891 cencus a Thomas Riley 26 born Newcastle as a prisoner in A M prison Newcastle, occ steam engine maker fitter, can anyone through light on this for me please? This cannot be your relative! You say he was born in 1874. That means he was ca. 18 in 1891. A census may be one or two years out, but 8 years is a lot!!!! There are many Thomas Rileys, and I think you have got at least 2 of them confused here!

I cannot find a marriage for a Thomas Riley and a Doris Leathart on freebmd Where does the certificate say they got married, what were the names of the fathers, and who were the witnesses?? There is a marriage registration in 1907 for a Thomas Riley and a Dora Pringle in South Shields.

In 1901 he is a GUN machinist

Thats what my mum said Reg, so i went back into find my past to look and it does say A M, do you think it is just a misprint? regards Kaz

Hi All, i have found my gr8 grandfather and his family today, his first son Thomas Riley (1874)was married to a Dora Leathart, i have the certificate here from my mum(mums grandfather), my problems is i have him in 1881,1891 but cant find him in 1901 apart from in a different county, he was born in Newcastle but then they all went to Carlisle, i found him in 1901 in Barrow-in-Furness married at the age of 28 as a boarder, address 15 Hindpool Road as a Geen Machinist, on the certificate i have he married at the age of 30 to Dora, could he have been married before? Also i came across in the 1891 cencus a Thomas Riley 26 born Newcastle as a prisoner in A M prison Newcastle, occ steam engine maker fitter, can anyone through light on this for me please? Was he married once before then imprisoned and remarried when out? what does A M stand for? many thanks to all who read this...Kaz

I would think it's more likely to be H M........His Majesty's Reg