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Afternoon Pen I haven't found an exact match on the 1841 census - but have kept this family of Gillard's in mind: Ann Coreham abt 1816 Surrey, England St Mary Magdalen Bermondsey Surrey George Gillard abt 1835 Surrey, England St Mary Magdalen Bermondsey Surrey Jane Gillard abt 1838 Surrey, England St Mary Magdalen Bermondsey Surrey John Gillard abt 1832 St Mary Magdalen Bermondsey Surrey Willm Gillard abt 1801 St Mary Magdalen Bermondsey Surrey Willm Gillard abt 1828 St Mary Magdalen Bermondsey Surrey Name: Willm Gillard Age: 13 Estimated birth year: abt 1828 Household: View other family members Gender: Male Civil parish: St Mary Magdalen Bermondsey Hundred: Brixton (Eastern Division) County/Island: Surrey Country: England Street address: Occupation: View image Source information: HO107/1047/3 Registration district: St Mary Magdalen Bermondsey Sub-registration district: Leather Market ED, institution, or vessel: 8 Folio: 34 Page: 26 (click to see others on page) Line number: 21 GSU Number: 474649 George & William are the right age ............ Jane may well be Frances and John could be William?? Ann the housekeeper is recorded as Coreham , it could really have been Cohen?? William snrs occupation isn't clear though! Unable to clarify wether Frances is a girl or boy as I only have the 1851 census to go by which clearly records her as a girl aged 12..... !!

Morning Debi, Can I just ask, have you found Frances and the other brothers on the 1841 and confirmed the sex of Frances as a daughter not a son? Strange question I now, but whilst searching through I found a possible, Frances Jillard born Portsmouth right age and the image actually reads Gillard. Can't remember which census though, pmsl. I also remember coming across a birth for a Frances Henry Gillard pre 70 though, late 60's, on the BMD. Wish I had made notes now. Pen x

Oh Pen that death looks GOOD......I'll order that one online tonight thank you .... Had a look at the Gillard brothers and could only find a William who looked as if he'd married a widow and gained her children!! Couldn't find George and as for Frances I suspect she's married somewhere so have a few leads to pursue now .......... its looking up!! Indebted again to you Pen :) Sorry Debbie - I'm not the same person - I married this name :) How exciting though she's a COONE, not many around here I bet she's related...... Much happiness Debi

is this the debbie coone from mill hill ? debbie

Hi again Debi, Wild, wild, imagination running away with me - but thought I would just check this out - There is a 21 year old James Lazarus in the household were the above Elizabeth whoever is .... BMD Birth entry Name: Henry Lazarus Year of Registration: 1870 Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar District: Whitechapel County: London, Middlesex Volume: 1c Page: 351 (click to see others on page) *********************** Also found this possible death for the mother, maybe they had the same name ? Name: Elizabeth Anne Gillard Estimated birth year: abt 1816 Year of Registration: 1872 Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar Age at Death: 56 District: Kensington County: Greater London, London, Middlesex Volume: 1a Page: 76 (click to see others on page) Pen x

Hi Pen your a trooper - how could thanks ever be enough for carrying on like this today? The step brothers I thought I had checked in 1871 - however I've made no notes!! How stupid of me - so will go over this ground and make sure she's not lurking with them. The 1871 Elizabeth is food for thought - her son could be with her mother or possibly another family member I guess - although we'll not be 100% sure it was her due to the error of not knwing her surname .... lol thank you so much again Pen for your time on this serch - I bet it's eaten well and truly into your day . Much happpiness debi

Debi, What do you think of this one ??? It might be her, although no child with her........... and she is in Whitechapel, the place once given on a census for Henrys Birthplace... 1871 Name: Elizabeth Age: 21 Estimated birth year: abt 1850 Relation: Servant Gender: Female Where born: St George IN The East, Middlesex, England Civil parish: St Mary Whitechapel Ecclesiastical parish: St Mark County/Island: London Country: England Registration district: Whitechapel Sub-registration district: Goodmans Fields ED, institution, or vessel: 2 Household schedule number: 49 Household Members: Name Age Elizabeth 21 **** the image has NK written next to her name James Lazaras 21 Amelia Myers 3 Helena Myers 20 Leah Myers 13 Louis Myers 1 month Moses Myers 1 Philip Alfred Myers 26 Phoebe Myers 19 Sarah Myers 24 Servant and unmarried born in St George in the East Any thoughts? Pen x

Hi Debi Sorry but I can't spot them. I can't find Ann the mother on the 1871 census..but I can't find a death for her either during the years 1861 and 1871. Very strange. Best of luck, I will try and pop back again later. Pen x I also have been unable to find them on the 1851 to confirm the search info UPDATE *** Is this them ?? Although you might already have this, lol. Name: Henry Gulland Age: 4 Estimated birth year: abt 1847 Relation: Son Father's name: John Mother's name: Ann Gender: Male Where born: St George, Middlesex, England Civil parish: St George IN The East County/Island: Middlesex Country: England Registration district: St George In The East Sub-registration district: St John ED, institution, or vessel: 1 Household schedule number: 25 Household Members: Name Age Ann Gulland 36 Elizabeth Gulland 2 Frances Gulland 12 George Gulland 16 Henry Gulland 4 John Gulland 52 William Gulland 23 The image does look like Gillard. Address 45 Old Gravel Lane Have you checked the 1871 to see if she is with any of the sib's Debi?

Hi Pen ......... I was able to find Henry & his wife in 1871 .......but was unable to find their Mother ..... I did search under the mothers maiden name COHEN ( just incase ) as father John GILLARD had died in 1854 ( St George in East)

Have you located him on the 1871 and ruled out the poss that Anne and Henry are with him and his new wife? Pen x Also had the mother died by the 1871 ?

Debi before you go please could you post the details for Anne on the 1861 census ? Cheers Pen x Could you please confirm - 1861 Name: Ann E Gillard Age: 11 Estimated birth year: abt 1850 Relation: Daughter Mother's name: Ann Gender: Female Where born: St George IN The East, Middlesex, England Civil parish: St George IN The East County/Island: Middlesex Country: England Street address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: View image Registration district: St George In The East Sub-registration district: St John ED, institution, or vessel: 3 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 217 Household Members: Name Age Ann Gillard 46 Ann E Gillard 11 Henry Gillard 13 Have you been able to locate the mother or brother on 1871 census? Pen x

Penelope you sweetie - yes thats Ann with her brother Henry & widowed Mother Ann. Henry gets married later in 1871 ( St Saviour district of London) to Mary LANCASTER - they never seemed to have children though sadly!!

Deborah I know it's a longshot but as Michael was Irish maybe they were visiting Ireland when the 1881 census was taken? Georgina.

Georgina I think I'm going to have to except this because for 3 years I've not been able to find them on census for 1881......I know that a daughter Mary Ann COONE ( sometimes known as Polly) is recorded in both 1891 & 1901 as being born in 1881 St Lukes ........another birth I've not been able to find!! I thought that as poor folk they wouldn't have been able to afford a trip home to Micheal's mother land - but clearly for whatever reason they don't show on the 1881 census Thank you all for your help we've been hard at this for a good couple of hours lol.......shall leave it all for another day . Most grateful for your time & assistance. Much happiness Debi

Glitter baby bless you and thanks .........what a shame - this name would suit me right now as I've resorted to trawling through pages of the 1871 census in the hope to find mother & son. I do think I have Micheal COONE ( without an E ) at a familar address of London Passage ( an adress that appears several times for births & census's ) He is recorded as single and an unemployed Engine Fitter ( a profession he never goes back to) 1871 England Census about Michael Coon Name: Michael Coon Age: 24 Estimated birth year: abt 1847 Relation: Lodger Gender: Male Where born: Ireland Civil parish: St Luke Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary Golden Lane Town: London County/Island: London Country: England Registration district: Holborn Sub-registration district: Whitecross Street ED, institution, or vessel: 8 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 29

1871 for Michael ? Name: Michael Coon Age: 24 Estimated birth year: abt 1847 Relation: Lodger Gender: Male Where born: Ireland Civil parish: St Luke Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary Golden Lane Town: London County/Island: London Country: England Registration district: Holborn Sub-registration district: Whitecross Street ED, institution, or vessel: 8 Household schedule number: 29 Household Members: Name Age John Bradley 20 John Burka 23 George Cook 31 Michael Coon 24 Julia Healey 52 William Jones 21 Alexander Tait 35

1881 not sure whether I should suggest this one or not. Could 'C' be mistranscribed as 'L'. Name: Ann Looney Age: 1 Estimated birth year: abt 1880 Relation: Daughter Father's name: Michael Mother's name: Anne Gender: Female Where born: Aldgate, Middlesex, England Civil parish: St Botolph Without Aldgate County/Island: London Country: England Street address: No 2 Providence Place Education: Employment status: View image Registration district: Whitechapel Sub-registration district: Aldgate ED, institution, or vessel: 4 Neighbors: View others on page Household Members: Name Age Ann Looney 1 Anne Looney 36 born Ireland Jane Looney 5 Margaret Looney 3 Michael Looney 36 Maureen Updated Rule this one out as image is clear as Looney

Hi Georgina Yes purchased this one also as Holborn isn't that far from St Luke etc...infact the family have lived around these areas until the 1960's. thanks though for your help :) Thanks Penelope meant to put up refrence to the 1891 census - do remember that Alice is recorded on birth marriage & death certs as Anne Elizabeth.....gawd knows why Alice in 1891?!?!? By 1901 Micheal COONE snr had died ( 12 Jun 1895 - Holborn ) Debi

1891 just for our ref - Name: Alice Coone Age: 42 Estimated birth year: abt 1849 Relation: Wife Spouse's name: Michael Gender: Female Where born: St George IN The East Civil parish: St Luke Ecclesiastical parish: St Pauls Town: London County/Island: London Country: England Registration district: Holborn Sub-registration district: Old Street ED, institution, or vessel: 2 Household Members: Name Age Alice Coone 42 Anne Coone 12 John Coone 2 Margaret Coone 17 Mary A Coone 10 Michael Coone 42 abt 1849 Ireland Michael Coone 15 William Coone 5

Have you checked this certificate? Births Mar 1870 (>99%) Gillard Henry George Holborn 1b 764 Georgina.