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Hi Jacqueline.... Okay........This is the conclusion I came to following the census trail......all info must be verified by certificates as usual...and of course any body else's opinions highly valued.....I am not saying I am right.....only what it looks like to me....... Let us start with what you DO know......Jane Draper Kitchen born Conisborough, 1869.......... 1881 census posted for reference by Reggie - Jane Draper Kitchen with step father George Jepson and Mother Elizabeth..... Likely marriage posted by Georgina...1875, Worksop of a George Jepson and Elizabeth Kitchen. (Jane's Stepfather and Natural Mother) Lets get this out of the way first.............. Georgina then posted an 1871 census for a possible Jane Kitchen....following that family - I then posted an 1881 census later in the thread at 00,25 on the 18th, so we are able to discount them....as I said at the bottom of that post..... 'Could throw some doubt onto this family ...same family show up in 1891'......So lets FORGET about James and Elizabeth Kitchen, 1871 and 1881 as they are not relevant here... Now back to Elizabeth Kitchen who married George Jepson in 1875, Jane's natural mother and step father......Jane's natural mother says she is born about 1847 in Retford.......There was some discussion as to whether or not Elizabeth had been married previously which would account for Jane's middle name...... ..............I don't think this is the case as a census search brings up an Elizabeth Kitchen born Retford abt: 1847 - living with Thomas and Jane Barker as daughter in law (step daughter - same meaning), this is the 1851 census and below it I posted a possible marriage of a Jane Kitchen and a Thomas Barker in 1849, East Retford......... ...So Elizabeth's Natural Mother is Jane Kitchen and her step father is Thomas Barker........that makes Jane and Thomas Barker the grandparents of Jane Draper Kitchen.... Are there any other factors which would make us think we are on the right track...............can we link these families together.... I then posted an 1871 census for a Jane Draper who lo' and behold is the right age, born Conisborough and living with Grandparents Jane and Thomas Barker, step father and natural mother to Elizabeth Jepson nee Kitchen......(I also posted a possible 1871 census for Jane's mother Elizabeth working away from home as a servant, her daughter Jane Draper is back home with Granny and Grandad.) Georgina had previously posted a birth reference for Jane Draper Kitchen, Doncaster Registration District...that certificate is vital..... So that leaves us wondering about the name Draper as so far we have found plenty of step parents (two generations) but no mention of a Draper name.......which is why I said often if the father would not admit/acknowledge/was unable to marry the mother his surname was given to the child as a middle name to 'point the finger' at the culprit..... So.......... Jane Barker nee Kitchen natural mother of - Elizabeth Jepson nee Kitchen natural mother of - Jane Draper Kitchen....... I hope this helps to clarify my thinking.... Gail. x x

Good Morning to all could some one please go though these treads that have been sent to me and tell me if I am reading them wrong Elizabeth Kitchin step daughter to Thomas Barker then marries James Kitchen then have 3 children The eldest being my g grandmother and an illegitimate child of a man named Draper!!!!!!! I am so confused all I know for sure is that my G Grandmother is Jane Draper Kitchen who married John Palmer OH GOD please help me out someone anyone

Hi Jacqueline I agree with OC that divorce is an unlikely option but going by the above census (If I am correct......!!!) I don't think divorce came into it here as Jane's mother Elizabeth Kit/chen is still a Kit/chen when she married George Jepson........... I think it much more likely that Draper was given as a middle name to 'point the finger' at the father, which was a much more usual practice in an illegitimate birth.. Gail. x

Jacqueline Divorce was exceptionally rare and very expensive, so it was really only the very rich who bothered with divorce. Which leaves you with two options - death or bigamy! Bigamy was quite common. OC

This is the same family as in 1851. The 1871 census....Jane's mother was Elizabeth Jepson nee Kitchen step daughter of Thomas Barker. 1871 Jane Draper Age: 2 Estimated birth year: abt 1869 Relation: Granddaughter Gender: Female Where born: Conisbrough, Yorkshire, England Civil parish: Lound Town: Lound County/Island: Nottinghamshire Country: England Betsy Barker 3 Enock Barker 8 Jane Barker 44 Born Sutton, Notts. Jane Barker 18 Mary Barker 11 Selina Barker 14 Daughter (visitor) Thomas Barker 44 Cordwainer, Born Lound, Notts. Thomas Barker 5 Walter Barker 13 ............................Jane Draper 2 Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 3451; Folio: 21; Page: 8; GSU roll: 839418. All children born Lound...Notts. Here is Jane Draper Kichen's mother on the 1871 Eliza Kitchen Age: 24 Estimated birth year: abt 1847 Relation: Servant Gender: Female Where born: Retford, Nottinghamshire, England Civil parish: Radford and Worksop County/Island: Nottinghamshire Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 3460; Folio: 37; Page: 4; GSU roll: 839421. Gail x

Thank you for you hard work but I do not think that is my family as Elizabeth was remarried in 1875 I think!!!!

Think this is the family that Georgina put the 1871 on for in 1881..... Richard Kitching Age: 11 Estimated birth year: abt 1870 Relation: Son Father's name: James Mother's name: Elizabeth Gender: Male Where born: Boynton, Yorkshire, England Civil parish: Kirby Sigston County/Island: Yorkshire Country: England Registration district: Northallerton Anna Kitching 14 Eliza Kitching 6 Elizabeth Kitching 32 Elizabeth Kitching 3 James Kitching 34 James Kitching 2 Jane Kitching 12 born Boynton.. Richard Kitching 11 Susan Kitching 5 Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 4869; Folio: 74; Page: 2; Line: ; GSU roll: 1342172. Could throw some doubt on to this family.....same family show up in 1891.......... Gail. x

can Elizabeth be a daughter in law aged 4?????

thank you Gail will I be able to find out if James and elizabeth got devorced and where the other children went

Daughter in Law is what we now call step daughter..it is a phrase often used back then. Gail. x

thank you everyone for your quick and helpfull assistence

On the 1851 with Elizabeth Kichen daughter in law of Barker's there is a family above them with the name of Draper.... Gail.

I dont know why she has the middle name of Draper but this is her birth reference... Births Mar 1869 (>99%) KITCHIN Jane Draper Doncaster 9c 573 Georgina.

Should clarify I thought this may be Elizabeth Jepson nee Kichen the mother. 1851 census Elizabeth Kitchin Age: 4 Estimated birth year: abt 1847 Relation: Daughter-in-law Spouse's name: Thomas Gender: Female Where born: Retford, Nottinghamshire, England Civil parish: Lound County/Island: Nottinghamshire Country: England Registration district: East Retford Sub-registration district: Gringley Jane Barker 24 Thomas Barker 24 Thomas Barker 6 Mo Elizabeth Kitchin 4 Daughter in Law.... Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 2121; Folio: 179; Page: 10; GSU roll: 87750-87751. A marriage...although other people on the page........ Thomas Barker 1849 Q4. East Retford Nottinghamshire Jane Kitchen Gail.

What would of happened to her brother and sister did her mom and dad devorce then do you think

No Reg I have not traced her any earlier than 1881 can you help me

Just posting full 1881 details.......for info George Jepson abt 1840 Worksop, Nottinghamshire, England Head Worksop Nottinghamshire Elizabeth Jepson abt 1847 Retford, Nottinghamshire, England Wife Worksop Nottinghamshire Thomas Jepson George, Elizabeth abt 1877 Nottinghamshire, England Son Worksop Nottinghamshire Mary E. Jepson abt 1880 Worksop, Nottinghamshire, England Daughter Worksop Nottinghamshire Jane Draper Kitchen abt 1869 Conisbro, Yorkshire, England Step Daughter Worksop Nottinghamshire Have you traced her in 1871? Reg

You may not find her birth under any name..........it wasn't compulsory to register births until 1875........... Reg

This looks like Jane in 1871... Name: Jane Kitchen Age: 2 Estimated birth year: abt 1869 Relation: Daughter Father's name: James Mother's name: Elizabeth Gender: Female Where born: Boynton, Yorkshire, England Civil parish: Boynton County/Island: Yorkshire Country: England Street address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: Disability: View image Registration district: Bridlington Sub-registration district: Bridlington ED, institution, or vessel: 1 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 31 Household Members: Name Age Elizabeth Kitchen 24 Hannah Kitchen 4 James Kitchen 26 Jane Kitchen 2 Richard Kitchen 1 Georgina.

Thank you for that but where does the Draper come in to it then??????