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Quite a bit of information so will post again so I can put into paragraphs

I have just started researching my husband's family. I know that his great grandad was called John Robert Matthews. I have got a photograph of John Robert Matthews grave which shows that he died 06/01/1944. Looking back on the deaths on Ancestry there is a death registered in Leeds (which is where he died) J/F/M 1944 John R Matthews age 65. This would make his year of birth around 1878. I have got a copy of his marriage certificate 06/11/1901 giving his age as 23, again this would give an approx. year of birth around 1878. The marriage certificate gives his occupation as driver in Royal Field Artillery. Looking at the 1901 census, there is a John Matthews living in Leeds, driver in Royal Field Artillery age 21, which would make his year of birth approx. 1880. He married in Leeds in November 1901 so this would fit. The census shows his place of birth in Middlesex. The marriage certificate shows that his father was Frederick Matthews (deceased) and his father's occupation was Confectioner. I have found a birth in O/N/D 1878 in Holborn, Middlesex for a John Robert Matthews so have ordered the birth certificate. It shows that his father's name was Henry Matthews (different from the marriage certificate), so I assume that this is the wrong birth, however, I am unable to find another birth which would match. If you've managed to follow all this information so far, thank you. Where do I go from here? Can anyone else find a birth which would fit, or can you suggest anything else that I should look for? I should also mention that I am unable to find John Robert Matthews on the 1881 or 1891 census. Please help, Joanne.

Have you looked for Frederick Matthews, a confectioner in 1871c or 1881.? On the certificate which you have, what was the father, Henry's occupation.? Have you tried looking for any of these in trade directories incase they had their own business? Gwyn

I have but can't find him. Joanne.

Sorry. I added more to last posting. Who were the witnesses at marriage?.... do they help. Siblings perhaps? Gwyn

Hi Gwyn, Thanks for your help. Henry's occupation was Ginger Beer Maker. The witnesses on the marriage certificate were Michael B Mcgilley and Mary Ann Payler. The mother on the birth certificate was Caroline Matthews formerly Spillers. Joanne.

Where do I find trade directories? Joanne.

If you type...... Historical Directories.... into a search on Google, you might find some in the right area. I found a John in 1881, lodging in Devon with his family. Dad was a baker..... problem is, - he was called Thomas. UPDATE Have you tracked the witnesses through 1901 census and before, possibly matching to bmd records? Gwyn

I can't find even one Michael Mcgilley on the 1901 census. I haven't tried tracking them though. There are some Mary Payler's so this might be the way to go. I must admit, my head is spinning wondering what to try next! Thank you for all your suggestions and for your help, Joanne.

I wonder if this might be the witness, Michael? Marriages Dec 1899 Callaghan John Scarbro' 9d 849 Hannah Elizabeth Scarbro' 9d 849 Holmes Rachel Scarbro' 9d 849 >>>Megilley Michael Bernard Scarbro' 9d 849 Gwyn

Couple of things: On 1901 census does he say where he was born? It seems odd that if he spent most of his life in Leeds he would have been born in London. I know it's not impossible but ... Also, have you tried searching for a Henry Frederick Matthews or Frederick Henry Matthews for father. Maybe he dropped one name after John was born and was known by second name by the time John married. Jill

Looks like it could be. Thanks again for all your help, I'll look into this one. Joanne.

Hi Jill, On the 1901 census he was a soldier, and soldiers are posted all over the place. It shows on the census that he was in barracks in Leeds but born in Middlesex. This would put him in the right place to meet his future wife and marry. Yes, I have looked for a John Matthews born around 1876,77,78,79 and 1880 with fathers with the first name of either Henry or Frederick, but can't find anything. I also forgot to mention that my husband's auntie, John Robert Matthews grandaughter thought that there was some connection with London, but didn't know what, so again, him being born in Middlesex would fit. Joanne.

BINGO..... Look on the 1901 census under Michael Megilley, he's living next door to Mary A Payler. This is the biggest lead I have. Thank you!!!

Grrrrrr, I don't think the witnesses have anything to do with John Robert Matthews at all. His wife had a sister named Mary A and she was born in 1872. Mary Ann Payler is shown as aged 29 on the 1901 census so I'm expecting that this turns out to be her. Sooooo, I'm back to square one now. What's my next step??? Joanne.

Try looking for Megilley and Payler in 1891 - they must have been friends - maybe for not that long but it's worth a go. Jill

Had a quick trawl on FreeBMD. Looks like Mary ARNOLD married Eber Payler. And Michael Bernard Megilley married Elizabeth HANNAH. Do either of those names help? Jill

Hi Jill, Yes, John Robert Matthews married Alice Arnold and Alice had a sister Mary A Arnold born c1872. Mary A Payler is a witness on John and Robert's marriage certificate. Mary A Arnold was born c1872 and Mary A Payler is shown on the 1901 census as aged 29, so I'm sure that they're one and the same. Unfortunately, this doesn't get me any nearer to finding anything out about John Robert Matthews!!! Thanks everyone for your continued help. It's all very very much appreciated. Joanne.