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Thanks Kate......I didn't think of that either..... I'm off to London for the day tomorrow so will go in the Reg Office and get one.... Thanks Kate! Kind Regards Angie.

Angie, what you should do is get the birth certificate for one of the children to get the mother's maiden name so you are sure of finding the right marriage. Kate.

Thank you all so much for you help....... Everything makes sense now and at last I can move on....Yipee! They didn't make things easy for us did they???....LOL...... Kind Regards! Angie....

There is also this marriage in Stepney (the district the family were in in 1851):- Name: Thomas Whitwell Year of Registration: 1847 Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec District: Stepney County: Greater London, London, Middlesex Volume: 2 Page: 500 There is no Ellen transcribed on the page, but there are only 7 people transcribed - one of the females is missing, so it could be Ellen. Kath. x

First marriage ????? I think it's in q1 1849 in Whitechapel. Thomas is shown on page 2 454. Can't tell which Ellen it is. Possibly Ellen Barret 2 45? with last number unclear or Ellen Cooper shown as 2 455 or Ellen Cumber 2 451 Jim

You are all GREAT people!...........Thank you so much! I didn't think of a second Wife......Don't ask me why......LOL....It would solve it though...... It is most certainly 100% the same Family...... That is what was throwing me though..... the Ellen........ That's what never ceases to amaze me on this board....Is just how many people are willing to help you out. Thank You ALL SO MUCH!...Most Appreicated! BIG HUGS Angie!

1891 possible Name: John Whitwell Age: 27 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1864 Relation: Head Spouses's Name: Mary Gender: Male Where Born: Ratcliff, London, England Civil parish: Limehouse Ecclesiastical parish: St Pauls Town: London County/Island: London Registration district: Stepney Sub registration district: Limehouse ED, institution, or vessel: 21 Neighbors: View others on page Household Members: Name Age Hannah Whitwell 3 John Whitwell 27 John Whitwell 1 Mary Whitwell 25 Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 297; Folio 80; Page 18; GSU roll: 6095407

1851 Name: Thomas Whitwell Age: 21 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1830 Relation: Head Spouses's Name: Ellen Gender: Male Where born: Ratcliffe, Middlesex, England Civil parish: Limehouse County/Island: Middlesex Country: England Registration district: Stepney Sub-registration district: Limehouse ED, institution, or vessel: 1 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 84 Household Members: Name Age Ellen Whitwell 23 Ellen Whitwell 2 James Whitwell 3 Mo Thomas Whitwell 21 Reg

With wife number one in 1861 Name: Thomas Whitwell Age: 30 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1831 Relation: Head Spouses's Name: Ellen Gender: Male Where born: Shadwell, Middlesex, England Civil parish: Stepney Ecclesiastical parish: St James County/Island: Middlesex Country: England Registration district: Stepney Sub-registration district: Ratcliff ED, institution, or vessel: 5 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 147 Household Members: Name Age Ellen Whitwell 30 Ellen Whitwell 12 Jane Whitwell 5 Mo Maria Whitwell 2 Mary Ann Whitwell 4 Thomas Whitwell 30 Thomas Whitwell 6 Reg

1851 England Census Record about Thomas Whitwell Name: Thomas Whitwell Age: 21 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1830 Relation: Head Spouses's Name: Ellen Gender: Male Where born: Ratcliffe, Middlesex, England Civil parish: Limehouse County/Island: Middlesex Country: England Street address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: Disability: View image Registration district: Stepney Sub-registration district: Limehouse ED, institution, or vessel: 1 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 84 Household Members: Name Age Ellen Whitwell 23 Ellen Whitwell 2 James Whitwell 3 Mo Thomas Whitwell 21 Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 1554; Folio: 11; Page: 15; GSU roll: 174786.

This is the same family (plus wife) in 1861:- Name: Thomas Whitwell Age: 30 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1831 Relation: Head Spouses's Name: Ellen Gender: Male Where born: Shadwell, Middlesex, England Civil parish: Stepney Ecclesiastical parish: St James County/Island: Middlesex Country: England Street address: 5 Grove (?) Court Occupation: Coal Whipper Condition as to marriage: View image Registration district: Stepney Sub-registration district: Ratcliff ED, institution, or vessel: 5 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 147 Household Members: Name Age Ellen Whitwell 30 Ellen Whitwell 12 Jane Whitwell 5 Mo Maria Whitwell 2 Mary Ann Whitwell 4 Thomas Whitwell 30 Thomas Whitwell 6 Kath. x

Marriage ? View Record Name Year of Registration Quarter of Registration Spouse's Surname District County View Image View Record Ann Elizabeth Cluer 1872 Oct-Nov-Dec St George In The East London, Surrey View Record Charles Dennis 1872 Oct-Nov-Dec St George In The East London, Surrey View Record Catharine Walker 1872 Oct-Nov-Dec St George In The East London, Surrey View Record Thomas Whitwell 1872 Oct-Nov-Dec St George In The East London, Surrey Jim

here is 1861 1861 England Census Record about Thomas Whitwell Name: Thomas Whitwell Age: 30 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1831 Relation: Head Spouses's Name: Ellen Gender: Male Where born: Shadwell, Middlesex, England Civil parish: Stepney Ecclesiastical parish: St James County/Island: Middlesex Country: England Street address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: View image Registration district: Stepney Sub-registration district: Ratcliff ED, institution, or vessel: 5 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 147 Household Members: Name Age Ellen Whitwell 30 Ellen Whitwell 12 Jane Whitwell 5 Mo Maria Whitwell 2 Mary Ann Whitwell 4 Thomas Whitwell 30 Thomas Whitwell 6 Source Citation: Class: RG9; Piece: 284; Folio: 148; Page: 23; GSU roll: 542606.

Angie.......posting full 1881........the other names may help with the search............. Name: Thomas Whitwell Age: 49 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1832 Relation: Head Spouses's Name: Catherine Gender: Male Where Born: Shadwell, Middlesex, England Civil parish: Ratcliffe County/Island: London Country: England Street address: Stepney Causeway 21 Condition as to marriage: Married Education: Employment status: View image Occupation: Coal Whipper Registration district: Stepney Sub registration district: Ratcliff ED, institution, or vessel: 3 Neighbors: View others on page Household Members: Name Age Catherine Whitwell 45 Catherine Whitwell 4 Emily Whitwell 13 John Whitwell 17 Joseph Whitwell 15 Thomas Whitwell 49 Reg

It looks as if Catherine might be his second wife. Jim

There is this one in 1871 census, but he is a widower. Could he have married again before the 1881 census? The age is out a couple of years but that's not much on census returns. Name: Thos Whitwell Age: 42 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1829 Relation: Head Gender: Male Where born: Shadwell, Middlesex, England Civil Parish: Stepney Ecclesiastical parish: St James Town: London County/Island: London Country: England Street address: 14 George Street Occupation: Labourer Condition as to marriage: Disability: View image Registration district: Stepney Sub-registration district: Ratcliff ED, institution, or vessel: 5 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 41 Household Members: Name Age Ellen Whitwell 22 Emily Whitwell 2 James Whitwell 8 Jane Whitwell 10 John Whitwell 6 Joseph Whitwell 4 Maria Whitwell 12 Thos Whitwell 42 Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 547; Folio: 7; Page: 7 Kath. x

Hi, I am looking for my 4xGrandparents and cannot find anything on them other than the 1881 Census details (which I have). Their names are Thomas Whitwell,(he was a Coal Whipper) born Shadwell, Middlesex (now London) abt 1832 and Catherine born about 1836, (She was a talioress)in Ratcliff Middlesex........Sorry I have no maiden surname for her..... I am having no luck at all trying to locate them........Seems all lines I look on block me....Perhaps I wear the wrong perfume....LOL....... Any help would be most greatfully appreciated! Many many thanks! Kind Regards Angie.