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Thank you Lol, for the latest Barbara James Look ups. I think that you are quite right to say that none of them are mine. I had a quick look at the location of the Derbyshire village, but although it is nearer to Sheffield than London, I think that it would be pushing it a bit to claim that particular Barbara as mine! Plus there is the small matter that this Barbara James claims to be Welsh...! A Loose woman, perhaps? On-the-run? Maybe. But Welsh? No! Dad has pointed out, that as the children were still known as AYERS in 1861, perhaps I am going about it the wrong way, and should be looking for a BARBARA AYERS not Barbara James still on the c.1861. Could you help with this at all? Best Wishes, Keren

Keren, This is the only Barbara i can find that you refer to from1837 on line: View Record Charles Burchmore abt 1838 Edgware, Middlesex, England Husband West Ham Essex View Record Elizabeth Burchmore abt 1838 Hadley, Middlesex, England Wife West Ham Essex View Record Emma Burchmore abt 1860 Hadley, Middlesex, England Daughter West Ham Essex >>>View Record Barbara Jane James abt 1842 Stratford, Essex, England Head West Ham Essex And this one for West ham too: >>>View Record Barbara James abt 1819 Newcastle Wife West Ham All Saints Essex View Record Benjamin James abt 1807 Suffolk, England Head West Ham All Saints Essex View Record Catherine James abt 1860 Stratford, Essex, England Daughter West Ham All Saints Essex View Record Isabel James abt 1855 Stratford, Essex, England Daughter West Ham All Saints Essex View Record James James abt 1857 Stratford, Essex, England Son West Ham All Saints Essex View Record Louisa James abt 1849 Stratford, Essex, England Daughter West Ham All Saints Essex View Record Mary James abt 1847 West Ham, Essex, England Daughter West Ham All Saints Essex View Record Richard James abt 1851 Stratford, Essex, England Son West Ham All Saints Essex ***************************************************** There is nothing showing for Barbara JaNes for Hayfield, it's probobally been mis-transcribed on Ancestry, No signes of the Barbara in Stourbridge either! Just found the Hayfield one: >>>View Record Barbara James abt 1825 Bryddyn, Flintshire, Wales Servant Dinting Derbyshire View Record Eliza James abt 1827 Mold, Flintshire, Wales Servant Dinting Derbyshire View Record James Haytham Livertle abt 1824 Wyersdale, Lancashire, England Servant Dinting Derbyshire View Record Zipporah Robinson abt 1846 Hadfield, Derbyshire, England Son Dinting Derbyshire View Record Clara Vatter abt 1832 Manchester, Lancashire, England Daughter Dinting Derbyshire View Record Jessy Vatter abt 1802 Charley, Lancashire, England Wife Dinting Derbyshire View Record Lucy Vatter abt 1840 Manchester, Lancashire, England Daughter Dinting Derbyshire View Record Walter Vatter abt 1834 Manchester, Lancashire, England Son Dinting Derbyshire RG9/2552 Registration district: **Hayfield** Sub-registration district: Glossop ED, institution, or vessel: 19 Folio: 5 Page: 5 Household schedule number: 24 GSU Number: 542988 Keren, Some how I don't think any of them are yours, however with this Barbara/Fanny.....you never know lol Lib:))

Thanks again, ladies! Lady Liberty - if you still have the time? I have found 3 possibles for Fanny/Barbara on the 1861 from 1837.online: Barbara James F Westham aged 42 Barbara James F Stourbridge aged 39 & Barbara JaNes F Hayfield aged 36. We Would be most grateful. Keren. P.S. Dad has already sent off for the birth certificates for her children, James and Fanny Ayers!

and a poor lad on his own AYERS, William, 2 Norfolk 10 - 8

Also 1841 in Hoe AYERS, William, 50 hd, Ag Lab (Dereham Road) Norfolk AYERS, Judith, 45 Norfolk 6 - 6 AYERS, George, 20 Ag Lab Norfolk 6 - 6 AYERS, Henry, 11 Ag Lab Norfolk 6 - 6 AYERS, Robert, 9 Ag Lab Norfolk 6 - 6 AYERS, William, 7 Norfolk 6 - 6 AYERS, James, 4 Norfolk 6 - 6

I expect you have this info from 1841 Norfolk Hoe census AYERS, John, 40 hd, Ag Lab (Gorgate) Norfolk AYERS, Hewey, 25 Ag Lab Norfolk AYERS, William, 20 Ag Lab Norfolk 2 - 4 AYERS, Ann, 15 Norfolk 2 - 4 AYERS, James, 14 Ag Lab Norfolk 2 - 4 AYERS, Susan, 10 Norfolk 2 - 4 AYERS, Harriett, 8 Norfolk 2 - 4

Keren Thanks for the feedback, glad to know I have been of use and return your father's regards. I often wish mine was still alive, he would be really interested in what I've found about his relatives (many from Norfolk, incidentally!) nell

Hi Keren, Ive found this in 1851, looks like it's Judith Ayres, Barbara's mother, there is a Maria Ward c1828 with her son too. Im wondering if this Maria is the same Maria that Nell found on the 1861 census above. 1851. Judith's occupation states she is supported by her family. She is a Widow! Maria is a Ag labs wife, Elijah her son is 9 months old. View Record Henry Ayers abt 1830 Hoe, Norfolk, England Son Hoe Norfolk View Record James Ayers abt 1838 Hoe, Norfolk, England Son Hoe Norfolk >>>View Record Judith Ayers abt 1789 Gressenhall, Norfolk, England Head Hoe Norfolk View Record Robert Ayers abt 1834 Hoe, Norfolk, England Son Hoe Norfolk View Record William Ayers abt 1836 Hoe, Norfolk, England Son Hoe Norfolk View Record Elijah Ward abt 1850 Dillington, Norfolk, England Son Hoe Norfolk >>>View Record Marin Ward abt 1828 Hoe, Norfolk, England Visitor Hoe Norfolk (image reads Maria) HO107/1825 Registration district: Mitford Sub-registration district: Dereham ED, institution, or vessel: 1 Folio: 7 Page: 7 Household schedule number: 25 GSU Number: 207479 I can't find the Barbara Janes you refer to above, what area is she in??? There are a few Barbara James for in 1861, ive checked them out and they don't appear to be the one you need! ************************************************* Marriage ref for Maria Ayers and a John Ward: Name: Ayers, Maria Record Type: Marriages Quarter: June Year: 1848 District: Norwich County: Norfolk Volume: 13 Page: 471 View Record Ayers, Maria 1848 June Marriages Norwich Norfolk View Record Ward, John 1848 June Marriages Norwich Norfolk For cross referencing purposes ive looked for Maria, John and Elijah Ward in later census and cannot locate them! Lib:))

Little Nell and Lady Liberty Thank you both so much! This is all quite startling news and not what we expected at all! But it looks like between you, you have solved the mystery that has been dogging us for the last three years! (By us, I mean my Dad and I - he is ecstatic as well! And sends his thanks!) Basically, it looks like Barbara Ayres had all of her children illegitimately (we did not know about Julia.) They probably adopted their step-father's surname after Barbara married John James. That is, if she DID indeed marry somebody - and she wasn't lying about that as well! (I suspect, she was probably lying when she wrote 'widow' on the c.1851. ) It all seems strange that a girl from Norfolk was called Barbara Ayers in London, then moved all that way to Sheffield and became Fanny James...did they have witness protection schemes back in the Victorian era?!!! Mary Hogg/Rogg/Wegg is Barbara's sister, who later married Edward Reynold's and lived with them in Sheffield in 1881. We do not know at the moment who Maria Ayers is. And we still do not know where Barbara was on the night of the c.1861! But I did notice on the c.1861 on 1837.online that there was one Barbara James and a Barbara JaNes listed. I don't have any credits left...are either of you kind people able to follow that up for me, please? Thanks again, Keren Charlton.

A long shot I know but could this be Barbara with an illegitimate daughter??? She is living with a Cullen family. Image reads she is a Widow and Julia is ?months. There is no maritial status written on image for Mary Ann Rogg, ( which reads Hogg on image). William is a Clerk. 1851: >>>View Record Barbery Ayers abt 1825 Hoe, Norfolk, England Wife St George the Martyr Middlesex View Record Julia Ayers abt 1850 Middlesex, England Daughter St George the Martyr Middlesex View Record Susanna Cullen abt 1821 Lynn, Norfolk, England Wife St George the Martyr Middlesex View Record Susanna Hook Cullen abt 1851 Middlesex, England Daughter St George the Martyr Middlesex View Record William Cullen abt 1829 Norwich, Norfolk, England Head St George the Martyr Middlesex View Record Mary Ann Rogg abt 1816 Hoe, Norfolk, England Visitor St George the Martyr Middlesex HO107/1513 Registration district: Holborn Sub-registration district: St George ED, institution, or vessel: 4b Folio: 113 Page: 42 GSU Number: 87847 ******************************************** Just in case she is yours and you need this: Surname First name(s) District Vol Page -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Births Sep 1850 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ayers Julia Holborn 2 140 Lib:))

For ref 1881 3 Baron St, Sheffield, Yorkshire Fanny James abt 1831 Dereham, Norfolk Wife (Head) Fanny James abt 1855 London, Middlesex, Daughter James James abt 1856 London, London, Middlesex, Son Willie James abt 1879 Sheffd, Yorks Grandson Sarah Marriott abt 1825 Dereham, Norfolk, Sister Edwd. Reynolds abt 1832 Sheffd, Yorks Brother Mary A. Reynolds abt 1821 Dereham, Norfolk, Sister Robinson Clarke abt 1857 Northorpe, Lincoln, Boarder 1891 Sheffield Yorkshire James, Fanny abt 1831 Pentney, Norfolk Head James, Fanny abt 1857 London, Daughter 1901 Ecclesall Bierlow Yorkshire Fanny James abt 1824 Denham, Norfolk, Head Fanny James abt 1858 London, England Daughter James, Willie abt 1879 Sheffield, Yorks Grandson Willie James abt 1880 Sheffield, Yorks Grandson James, Emma abt 1890 Sheffield, Yorks Granddaughter Enna James abt 1891 Sheffield, Yorks Granddaughter Bryon Collins abt 1877 Garway, Ireland Boarder Tom Mulegrane abt 1880 Garway, Ireland Boarder John Toole abt 1880 Garway, Ireland Boarder Martin Toole abt 1879 Garway, Ireland Boarder

Possibles 1861? Mother, although not called Barbara, was born Norfolk and her children's names and ages match. Perhaps she married a Mr Ayers before she married Mr James? Frustratingly, neither Mary Wegg nor Maria Ayers' marital conditions are given. 1 Granville Place, Clerkenwell Middlesex Mary A Wegg abt 1811 Norfolk,Head needlewoman Maria Ayers abt 1831 Norfolk, Daughter Faney Ayers abt 1853 St Pancras, Middlesex, Daughter James Ayers abt 1857 Clerkenwell, Middlesex, Son

Jim Yes, that is them on the c.1871. After that, she changed her name to 'Fanny' for the c.1881,91 & c.1901. We have no idea why. Deborah We believe that that is probably her baptism record on the I.G.I. The children were born in Middlesex, London. Fanny born approx. 1853 and James James born approx. 1857. They all give different ages on all the following censuses. We think we have found her on the c.1841 in Norfolk as 'Barbara Ayes'; we have never found her marriage, or the baptism details of the children in London. She reappears in Ecclesall in Sheffield as 'Barbara' for the c. 1871. Changes her name to 'Fanny' for the next three censuses, then is registered as 'Barbara James' on her death certificate in 1906. Her daughter never married but from James James' wedding certificate we got his father's name as 'John.' Nothing else is known about him. We are having real problems piecing this all together, so would be very grateful for any help. Keren Charlton.

Are you saying this is not them? 1871 census View Record Barbara James abt 1828 Dereham, Norfolk, England Head Ecclesall Bierlow Yorkshire View Record Fanny James abt 1853 London, Middlesex, England Daughter Ecclesall Bierlow Yorkshire View Record James James abt 1857 London, Middlesex, England Son Ecclesall Bierlow Yorkshire

Don't know if you have this info ........ its from the LDS website an IGI for her: Barbara Ayers Female Event(s): Birth: Christening: 30 NOV 1823 Hoe, Norfolk, England Death: Burial: Parents: Father: William Ayers Family Mother: Judith Hanmond

Keren she isn't visible.........when and where were her children born?

Sorry no Barbara James, Ayres, Ayers on either census that could be yours! nell

Could some kind soul please look for this mysterious, elusive lady on the c.1851 & the c.1861? She was born between 1823-1826 in East Dereham/Hoe, Norfolk. She could be living with a husband (John?) and her children Fanny and James James on the c.1861. She changed her name to 'Fanny' by the c.1871and claims to have been a widow. Any help, gratefully appreciated. Keren Charlton