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Hi all. I really dont know where to go from here. Got Joseph Pope born Parkgate, Rotherham 1841c - census and death shows he was born this year. His mum Elizabeth is on the 1841 census in Rawmarsh, Rotherham as a widow. Joseph gives father as Edward Pope deceased on his marriage cert. I cannot find a birth for Joseph or a death for Edward between 1837 and 1845, ive trawelled through 1837 online and nothing. Does anyone have any suggestions at all. By 1851, Mum Elizabeth has remarried to a William Lister. Thanks, Claire x

Hi Claire, this is the only birth I can find on ancestry 1841, can't really see it being the one but here it is Name: Pope, Joseph Record Type: Births Quarter: March Year: 1841 District: Morpeth County: Co. Durham Northumberland Volume: 25 Page: 326 Gloria

Claire... maybe.... Name Edward POPE Date 11 Oct 1835 Aged 36 Place Rawmarsh Description St Mary Denomination Anglican County code WRY

It wasn't compulsory to register a birth in those days, so it could be that they didn't. Not sure whether it was compulsory to register a death then? Anybody know? Kate.

Hi all, I thought maybe Joseph wasnt born in Rotherham but all census says the same and he didnt move away until 1866. Now, i am very interested in the Edward Pope death. If that is him....then Elizabeth has told a few porkies about who was Joseph's father. I dont know about it being compulsary to register a death. I also cannot find a marriage between 1841 and 51 of an Elizabeth Pope to William Lister. Claire xx

So if that Edward Pope death is the right one, maybe Elizabeth had Joseph years after her husband died, and didn't tell him who his father was? Could make it tricky to find out if that is the case. I wonder if you can find Joseph's baptism at all, which might possibly help? Kate.

Hi Kate, If that is the right Edward then she had two children that were not his kids as he was dead but she must have told these two that Edward was their father because Joseph gives Edward Pope as the name of father on his marriage cert. The next time i get a chance to Sheffield again, i will check Rawmarsh St Mary for a baptism of Joseph. Not holding much hope though. Claire xx

Just been on familysearch and come across this in 1881, the interesting thing being his wife came from Durham and they obviously lived there for a while so there is a connection with it. Joseph POPE Head M Male 38 Parkgate, York, England Pudler Iron Mary Ann POPE Wife M Female 33 Sunderland, Durham, England Catherine POPE Daur Female 13 Sunderland, Durham, England Elizabeth M. POPE Daur Female 12 Sunderland, Durham, England Scholar Joseph POPE Son Male 10 Sunderland, Durham, England Scholar Eliza POPE Daur Female 8 Attercliffe, York, England Scholar John Wm. POPE Son Male 6 Attercliffe, York, England Scholar Emily POPE Daur Female 4 Attercliffe, York, England Florence POPE Daur Female 1 Attercliffe, York, England -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Source Information: Dwelling 17 Warden St Census Place Attercliffe Cum Darnall, York, England Family History Library Film 1342128 Public Records Office Reference RG11 Piece / Folio 4665 / 37 Page Number 67 Gloria

Hi Gloria, That was my first thought, but i dont understand why Elizabeth would move to Durham, have Joseph, and then come back again to the same place and have a couple of children to 2nd hubby William by 1851. If she herself was born there, i could understand it, but Elizabeth was born in Shropshire. Regards, Claire xx

Do we know where Edward was from? Gloria

No thats a problem, I dont have any census info at all for Edward, my guess would be Shropshire as well. There is a marriage on IGI in 1819 in Shropshire if an Edward Pope but i think Elizabeth would be way too young for that to be her. C xxx

Have we any idea why they moved to Yorkshire? He could have been a miner which would explain Yorkshire, and Durham also. Not really got much idea, just playing about with ideas. Gloria

Couple of deaths in Shropshire ???? POPE, Edward 1840 December Deaths Madeley Shropshire POPE, Edward 1841 September Deaths Madeley Shropshire Gloria

I dont know what his occupation was, i have no cert because it was before 1837. i know that a child they had, William, was born in Wolverhampton, but no marriage of an Edward Pope at all in Staffs. Next child was Thomas Edward Pope and his baptism in Rotherham was in 1835 but no other children baptised at the same place. Looks like the moved to Rawmarsh which is still Rotherham for the births of John and Joseph. But, if that is the right Edward death, then he isnt the father of John and Joseph. There is a big gap between Thomas and John. C xxxxx

The 1840 death is interesting, could make her pregnant with Joseph which Edward died. Could they have John, go to Shropshire, Edward die, and then Elizabeth come back? C x

You are going to struggle getting to the bottom of this. Got to do tea, may try again later. good luck Gloria

Thanks for your time on this Gloria, much appreciated. C xx