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This is all a little sketchy and confusing, so bear with me (and see below)

My great great grandfather was George BYERS, baptised 16 August 1835 Lambeth Surrey mother Ann, father William (on his marriage and death cert name is George James Byers, the only baptism that fits is for a George Daniel Byers) Anyway - first appears on the 1851 with one brother William Thomas Byers, born Lambeth, his mother Ann LEVITT and stepfather Joseph LEVITT. So I know his mother's name is Ann. I have them on the 1841 census, at 1 Orsett Place, Lambeth (no George with them though) living right next door to Joseph Levitt, but Ann is still a Byers. On his marriage cert - he gives his father's name as William BYERS, hatter, deceased. The only marriage I could find at Lambeth was Ann COPE and William BYERS in 1824. One of the children that these people seem to have had was a James Archibald BYERS, in 1834 who died the same year. His baptism record gives the address as 'Cottage Place, Lambeth' and father William is a hatter. The only death I can find before 1841 (have searched the GRO indexes) is a burial on 5 July 1835 (note one month BEFORE my George was baptised) under the name of William Archer BYERS, address was Cottage Place, Lambeth (same address as the baptism from 1834) aged 31. I found a baptism in Southwark (on IGI) for a William Archer BYERS in 1804. Born 12 Feb 1804. This would match in with the death found. Parents are Belfour BYERS and Janet. Now these are the children of a Balfour/Belfour Byers on the IGI: (not a common name!) 2. MARY ANN BYERS - International Genealogical Index / BI Gender: Female Christening: 24 APR 1808 Saint Saviour, Southwark, Surrey, England (Belfour) 4. ISABELLA BYERS - International Genealogical Index / BI Gender: Female Christening: 29 MAR 1812 Saint Mary, Lambeth, London, England (Belfour) Balfour ones.... mother listed as Janet CLARK on the Scottish ones 1. JAMES BYERS - International Genealogical Index / BI Gender: Male Christening: 30 MAR 1793 Saint Cuthberts, Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland 2. MARGARET BYERS - International Genealogical Index / BI Gender: Female Christening: 18 JAN 1795 South Leith, Midlothian, Scotland 3. JANET BYERS - International Genealogical Index / BI Gender: Female Christening: 29 JUN 1798 South Leith, Midlothian, Scotland 4. EDWARD BYERS OR CLARK - International Genealogical Index / BI Gender: Male Christening: 04 APR 1810 Saint Mary, Lambeth, London, England 5. ANDREW BYERS - International Genealogical Index / BI Gender: Male Christening: 09 AUG 1801 Saint Saviour, Southwark, Surrey, England This brought me to this marriage: BALFOUR BYERS Marriages: Spouse: JANET CLARK Family Marriage: 12 NOV 1791 Saint Cuthberts, Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland Janet's father is listed as John Clark. I then found this baptism for Balfour... BALFOUR BYRES Male Christening: 03 APR 1766 South Leith, Midlothian, Scotland Parents: Father: ARCHIBALD BYRES Family Mother: MARGARET HUSTON Other siblings: 31. ANDREW BYERS - International Genealogical Index / BI Gender: Male Birth: 10 APR 1753 Saint Cuthberts, Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland 31. HELEN BYRES - International Genealogical Index / BI Gender: Female Christening: 06 DEC 1759 South Leith, Midlothian, Scotland 33. THOMAS BYRES - International Genealogical Index / BI Gender: Male Christening: 19 OCT 1756 South Leith, Midlothian, Scotland 34. MARION BYRES - International Genealogical Index / BI Gender: Female Birth: 10 JUL 1754 Saint Cuthberts, Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland This is Archibald's marriage: ARCHBALD BYERS Male Family Marriages: Spouse: MARGARET HOUSTON Family Marriage: 05 APR 1752 Saint Cuthberts, Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland Margaret's father is listed as Thomas Houston And Archie's baptism - ARCHIBALD BYERS Male Birth: 22 NOV 1723 Saint Cuthberts, Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland Parents: Father: THOMAS BYERS Family Mother: MARGARET HENDERSON 3. MATTHEW BYERS - International Genealogical Index Gender: Male Birth: 05 NOV 1721 Saint Cuthberts, Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland 4. ARCHIBALD BYERS - International Genealogical Index Gender: Male Birth: 22 NOV 1723 Saint Cuthberts, Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland 5. ELIZABETH BYERS - International Genealogical Index Gender: Female Birth: 18 JUN 1719 Saint Cuthberts, Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland 6. JANE BYERS - International Genealogical Index Gender: Female Christening: 03 FEB 1717 Saint Cuthberts, Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland 7. MARGARET BYERS - International Genealogical Index Gender: Female Birth: 12 DEC 1726 Saint Cuthberts, Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland 8. THOMAS BYERS - International Genealogical Index Gender: Male Christening: 22 AUG 1714 Saint Cuthberts, Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland (mother's surname listed as HENRYSON) see 2nd post....

84. MARGARET BYERS - International Genealogical Index / BI Gender: Female Birth: 06 APR 1729 Saint Cuthberts, Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland (mother surname listed as HENRYSON) This looks to be their marriage MARGARET HENRYSON Female Family Parents: Father: WILLIAM HENRYSON Family Marriages: Spouse: THOMAS BYERS Family Marriage: 30 OCT 1713 Saint Cuthberts, Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland So where is Margaret's baptism? Where is Thomas'?? Where is Margaret Houston's? Janet Clark's? Also do you think that I haven't jumped to conclusions with this? Am I right in following this line? My main concern is that On George's marriage and on the marriage in Lambeth in 1824 the middle name ARCHER is not mentioned at all, nor can I find a Archer surname in the family! I'm unlikely to get up there (live in Hampshire) anytime soon and I really want to get further back with all of the branches. I've been at this line for about 9 months now and nothing seems to be happened. Please help!!!

Chloe, I have BYRES on my tree -distant rellies. I have MARGARET ANN BYRES who married JAMES WILSON in 1876 but die in 1877. Her parents were JOHN BYRES and CATHERINE YOUNG . She live in Brechin , Angus. John then married my great,great grandmother-Annie Thomson. Don`t know if this helps or wrong family all together,Rosalyn

Thanks Rosalyn. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to track Balfour's siblings forward in time, I've only gone back so far. Thanks for the message though. Can anyone help? Give me advice? Their two cents on what I've found? That's all I'm asking! I'm not asking someone to spend lots of money doing stuff for me, just what people think - have I drawn the right conclusions? Where to look now??? (tried ScotlandsPeople - but the site confuses me!)

Can people please STOP ignoring my message? I help people out.... I'm not asking for some huge favour, just people's opinions!

Hi Chloe, certainly not ignoring you, found it was a lot to take in and have had to read it quite a few times, still not sure I have got it. Couldn't your Archer be Archibald, or Archie, and has just been misheard. Tend to agree with Suzanne and think they may originate from Scotland/Ireland and thats where your problem will come. Gloria

Chloe - this is ringing distant bells. Have we looked at this before a long time ago? Have you looked on Scotsfind already? (www.scotsfind.org) It has some Edinburgh stuff such as burgesses, marriages, burials. If you want help looking through its databases let me know, but if we've already been down that path tell me! Also, have you looked on Scotland's People for wills of any of these people? Thirdly, have you looked for a marriage between Joseph Levitt and Ann Byers? It seems as though they should have got married between 1841 and 1851, so there should be a marriage certificate and that will give you some of Ann's family details, e.g. original surname, father's name, father's occupation. Also the witnesses' names may possibly help. Oh, and have you looked up the parish records entry for the marriage between Ann Cope and William Byers to get the witnesses' names for that one? (Or asked for somebody else to look it up) I'll have a think about the Scottish part of it... Kate.

Chloe I dont know if this will help but if you sent for Louisa Jane Levitt's birth certificate her mothers previous surnames should be on it and it might confirm that you have the right marriage for William Byers. Births Dec 1843 LEVITT Louisa Jane Lambeth 4 259 And from the IGI........ Louisa Jane Levitt Female Event(s): Birth: Christening: 28 JAN 1849 St Mary'S, Lambeth, Surrey, England Parents: Father: Joseph Levitt Family Mother: Ann Georgina.

Had a look through the Edinburgh stuff from Scotsfind and the wills on Scotland's People, but couldn't find anything to help without more information. For instance, there must be loads of Janet Clarks with father John, so how can we pick the right one? (I think I mentioned before that I have a Jessie Clark related to my tree and have a similar problem with her.) Kate.

Thanks everyone. Sorry for not replying straight away. I'm at work, and my boss has given me lots to do! Nasty boss!!! as for the marriage between William Byers and Ann Cope. I found it myself a few years ago. The witnesses are Elizabeth and John Jackson. No idea if they fit into the tree, or if they were just friends. I have the birth certificate of Louisa Jane LEVITT. It does not mention that Ann was previously Byers, but originally Cope, Just gives the name as Ann Levitt, formerly Cope. They were living in Orsett Place, same place as they are in the 1841 census, that is how I found them. BUT I have searched and searched in vain for a marriage cert for Joseph and Ann, and found nothing. I have tried 1837, the books at the FRC, parish records, everything. I can only assume that they never did marry. I have been told about Scotsfind but couldn't find anything relating to my people, and have look on ScotlandsPeople too, but again, little lost on that site, and I couldn't find any wills. I think I have traced the right line back. I haven't bought the cert yet, but there is a birth of a William George Archibald Byers in London on FreeBMD in 1852 and a death in 1852 for a George Archibald Byers. I think this is the same child, and that he might have been the son of William Thomas Byers, my George's brother (married in 1849 to a Maria/Hannah). Archibald links with the family cos of Balfour's father's name. SKS who looked up the death and baptism for William Archer BYERS in 1835 and 1804 respectively, sent me copies, and it definitely says Archer. I might have been misheard though. But still the confusion lies with him not using his middle name on his marriage to Ann Cope, or it not being given on his son (George's) marriage cert in 1857. I have tried for Margaret Huston/Houston - drives me potty really as it's not uncommon, especially Janet Clark, with a father called John!! Do you think that the actually marriage entry in St Cuthberts might tell me something more, like John's occupation? And the fact that the father is written down, does that mean that the woman is under 21? Sorry for all these questions. I can do English genealogy - but when it comes to Irish or Scottish (my grandad was Irish and have only gotten back to his grandmother on his mum's side), I'm a mess! Thanks again.

No, the bride's father's name is given on most Scottish marriages, it doesn't mean she was under age. As for whether there would be extra information on the actual entry, I don't know. Does anybody else? Scotland's People said a while ago they were going to make the images of the 'OPR' entries available on their website, but it has turned out to be more difficult than they thought. Probably Joseph and Ann didn't get married, so they didn't want to draw attention to her married surname of Byers? Kate.

Oh, I just remembered that a few of my (English) rellies had middle names which were obviously surnames and I have never found anybody with that surname in my tree, but I have now come to the conclusion that they were named after godparents. For instance, my Bristow g-g-g-grandparents had 14 children; three of their middle names were Browning, Clay and Bowman, none of which appear anywhere in my tree, but the mother's maiden name Lucey and grandmothers' maiden names Freemantle and Curling were never used for any of the children, so I am sure the ones they did use weren't family names. Otherwise they would have managed to use the mother's maiden name etc. somewhere among the fourteen, wouldn't they? All of which is a long way of saying maybe your Archer is a bit of a red herring, and not a family name at all! Kate.

Thanks Kate. I never thought of that. One my my ancestors on my mum's side (born in London, as was her father, her father's father etc) is Mary Edwards CHISWICK, her brother is William Edwards CHISWICK - I always assumed them to be surnames of grandparents etc, but might just well be Godparents' surnames. annoyed that the Archer looks to be a red herring though. Basically annoyed with this line in general!! Do Scottish marriages also have the occupation of the bride's father, or just his name? Chloe

Hi They do have the occupation of the bride's father and also the mothers maiden name if they are after civil registration in 1855. Unfortunatley the dates you are looking at are pre-registration and the records are very patchy. I've been searching for some of mine for years but they were just never recorded in the OPRs. You've done very well to get back as far as you have. Margaret

Thanks Margaret. Much appreciated. Think I'll go and cry, but it's all good!

Chloe I sent for a 1830 marriage reference from scotlands people and all it had on it were the Bride & Grooms names the date of the marriage and from this parish, no parents or witnesses names. My entry was from Perth I dont know if other counties have different info. Georgina.

Thanks Georgina and Davinia. Do you know what burial records are like pre registration?