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Dear Maureen in NY and Ninja lady Thank you so so soooo much for your kind help if there were possible web hugs id definatly pass them on to you 2 x (I'd forgotten how quickly people help on here!) Ninjalady the 1861 is a definite possibility I have been trying to research the background into Germans living in that area most of them were sugar bakers,clothing manufacture and fur dyers. This is definatly the way to go with these I think ive been looking at it that long I cant see the wood for the trees (although i cant believe that i last posted 5 years ago as well hehe how time flies) Ill let you know how I get on luckily this time round ancestry has the marriages of Londoners which is really fascinating thanks again ill be back to you later x

Maybe a brother to Herman?
Name: John Andrew Hake Occ:Starch maker
Age: Full Age
Spouse Name: Sarah Ann Tovee
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 2 Mar 1851
Parish: St Luke, Old Street
County: Middlesex
Borough: Islington
Father Name: Joseph Hake
Spouse Father Name: William Tovee
One of the witnesses was Herman Hake
I'm pretty sure that the signature is the same as on the 2 marriages that NinjaLady pointed out.

1861 Ancestry
Name: Johannes Hake
Age: 37
Estimated birth year: abt 1824
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Sarah Ann
Gender: Male
Where born: Preußen, Colborg
Civil parish: Bethnal Green
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mathias
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England
Registration district: Bethnal Green
Sub-registration district: Town
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 36
Household Members:
Name Age
Johannes Hake 37
Sarah Ann Hake 32
John Willm Hake 9
Franz Anton Hake 6
Anne Katharina Hake 7
Source Citation: Class: RG9; Piece: 262; Folio: 75; Page: 6

Maureen

This has got to be linked somehow!!!

1861 England Census
about Harmond Hake
Name: Harmond Hake
Age: 72
Estimated birth year: abt 1789
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Mary
Gender: Male
Where born: Germany

Civil parish: Spitalfields
Ecclesiastical parish: Christchurch
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage: View image

Registration district: Whitechapel
Sub-registration district: Spitalfields
ED, institution, or vessel: 13
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 156
Household Members: Name Age
Harmond Hake 72 .....sugar baker.....born Germany
Mary Hake 36
Mary Hake 8


Although the age looks very much like 72 on the original, there must be a mistake somewhere, surely!

First marriage

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
about Herman Hake
Name: Herman Hake
Age: 45
Estimated birth year: abt 1817
Spouse Name: Mary Ann Rinn
Spouse Age: 31
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 4 Mar 1862
Parish: St Mark, Goodman's Fields
County: Middlesex
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Father Name: Joseph Hake - labourer
Spouse Father Name: Laurie Rinn - gardener

Groom's occupation - sugar baker
His age 45
Her age 31


Possible death for her??

Deaths Mar 1869 (>99%)
Hake Mary 38 Bethnal Green 1c 223

This is a longshot - but may be a link. This Jacob Hauch was born in Germany and profession given is Baker. The first marriage for Hermann Hake gives profession as sugar baker. Could they be related??

1861 England Census
about Jacob Hauch
Name: Jacob Hauch
Age: 46
Estimated birth year: abt 1815
Relation: Boarder
Gender: Male
Where born: Germany

Civil parish: Lambeth
Ecclesiastical parish: Kensington St Mark
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage: View image

Registration district: Lambeth
Sub-registration district: Kennington First
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 219
Household Members: Name Age
Ann Silver 53
Albert Silver 23
Emily Walker 16
George Brown 11
Jane Smith 47
>>>>>>>Jacob Hauch 46 .....born germany,,,,,baker
Benjamin Broadbridger 45

Possible immigration - then Anglicised name???

England, Alien Arrivals, 1810-1811, 1826-1869
about Hermann Haege
Name: Hermann Haege
Port of Arrival: London, England
Arrival Date: 22 Oct 1849
Port of Departure: Hamburg, Germany
Ship: Princess Royal
Country of Origin/Native of: Russia
Class: HO 3
Piece: 54

or

England, Alien Arrivals, 1810-1811, 1826-1869
about Hermann Hauch
Name: Hermann Hauch
Port of Arrival: London, England
Arrival Date: 2 Jun 1847
Country of Origin/Native of: Württemberg, Germany
Class: HO 2
Certificate Number: 829

1871?? - no place of birth given

1871 England Census
about Hermann Hake
Name: Hermann Hake
Age: 55
Estimated birth year: abt 1816
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Elizabeth
Gender: Male
Civil parish: Bermondsey
Ecclesiastical parish: St James
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England
Registration district: St Olave Southwark
Sub-registration district: St James Bermondsey
ED, institution, or vessel: 20
Household schedule number: 100
Household Members: Name Age
Hermann Hake 55 ....fur dyer
Elizabeth Hake 45
Henry Linderman 17



London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
about Elizabeth Lindemann
Name: Elizabeth Lindemann
Spouse Name: Herman Hake
Spouse Age: Full Age
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 18 Feb 1872
Parish: St James the Great, Bethnal Green
County: Middlesex
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Father Name: Jacob Hoffman - deceased
Spouse Father Name: Joseph Hake -deceased

He is a widower - she is a widow - perhaps the Henry Linderman from the census is her son??

Possible death of the father??

Deaths Dec 1880 (>99%)
Hake Herman 64 St. Olave 1d 183

Is this them in 1911

HAKE, John Henry Head Married M 60 1851 Dyer Sheep Skin London Bishopsgate VIEW
HAKE, Jane Wife Married
3 years F 60 1851 Essex Stratford VIEW
HAKE, Walter Richard Son Single M 24 1887 Salesman Cycle London Rotherhithe VIEW
HAKE, Rosina Ethel Daughter Single F 19 1892 Machinist Underclothing London Bermondsey VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG14 Piece:
2549 Reference:
RG14PN2549 RG78PN86 RD27 SD5 ED6 SN171

Registration District:
Camberwell Sub District:
Peckham North Enumeration District:
6 Parish:
Camberwell

Address:
237 Commercial Road Peckham S E County:
London

Hi all

Years later Im still trying to find the parents of John Hake!

My John Hake was born 1851 cant find a birth anywhere, as above his father was Herman Hake, there is one significant Herman Hake who seems to get married a few time march 1862 (but is a bachelor at time of marriage) Then Feb 1872 he is as a widower same father Joseph Hake and is now doing the same profession as his son John who is a a fur dyer. I can only presume it is my John Hakes father.

He is firstly married St Mark's Goodman s fields which was a very predominately poor German area. So I can vaguely presume he was German. I can never find him on any census. Has anyone else any suggestions however small ?

many thanks Jan x

Hi Irene Yes I am begining to think he may have been German has anyone any tips for trying to find ppl born in Germany? Jan x

My grandfathers surname name was Herman his father was born in Germany. Good Luck Irene

fathers occ on marriage cert: laboror dated 9 th Oct 1871 st James the great parish. Jan x

Hi Marylin No, I must try to have a look on 1837 he isn't on free BMD Have been having another look on ancestry I wonder if this could be him 1871 England Census Name Age in 1871 Birthplace Relationship Civil Parish County/Island View Image Catharine Hick 53 Stepney, Middlesex, England Head Mile End Old Town London George Faylor Hick 21 Bethnal Green, Middlesex, England Son Mile End Old Town London John Hicks 20 Shoreditch, Middlesex, England Son Mile End Old Town London Mary Jane Hicks 18 Shoreditch, Middlesex, England Daughter Mile End Old Town There is no father mentioned wonder if Herman his his father will have a look for Cathrine on 1861 thank you so much Jan x

Hi Victor Thanks for that yes I thought with a name like Herman he was German (unless his last name was Munster!) Oh pants where on earth do I go from here?? luv Jan x

Jan Here is a thought for you. Suppose John was not born in Shoreditch as he says. Suppose he was not born in this country at all. With a name like Herman Hake the chances are that his father or his grandfather were born in say Germany or Holland. Maybe John was born outside of the UK and only came here a couple of years before he married. In this case he would not show on any census. I know it is stretching things but, I have done a search on Ancestry with just Herman and it is supprising how many of them are not UK nationals. Just thought I'd run this one by you. Victor

Census 1881, Piece 580, Folio 71/72, Page 39/40. Schedule 221: 42 Raymouth Road, Rotherhythe, Southwark, Surrey. Parish All Saints. John Hake, Headm Mar, 30, Fur Dyeing, Shoreditch Middlesex Elizabeth Hake, Wife, MAr, 28, ...., Whitechaple Middlesex Elizabeth Hake, Daur, S, 8, .......,. Whitechaple Middlesex John Hake, Son, S, 6, ..............., Bermondsey Surrey. Herman Hake, Son, S, 5, ........., Bermondsey Surrey. Albert Hake, Son,S, 3, ..............., Bermondsey Surrey. Beatrice Hake, Daur, S, 11Mth, Rotherhithe Surrey. 1891 Haka, John 40 Shoreditch, London Head Bermondsey London Haka, Elizabeth 38 Whitechapel, London Wife Bermondsey London Haka, Elizabeth 18 Whitechapel, London Daughter Bermondsey London Haka, John 16 Bermondsey, London Son Bermondsey London Haka, Herman 15 Bermondsey, London Son Bermondsey London Haka, Albert 13 Bermondsey, London Son Bermondsey London Haka, Beatrice 10 Rotherhithe, London Daughter Bermondsey Haka, Arthur 6 Deptford, London Son Bermondsey London London Haka, Walter 4 Rotherhithe, London Son Bermondsey London Haka, Alfred 2 Rotherhithe, London Son Bermondsey London ______________________________________________ Census 1901, RG 13, Piece 513, Folio 94, Page 26. Schedule 164: 6 Maismore Terrace, Camberwell, London. Parish St Andrew. John H Hake, Head, Widower, 50, Sheepskin Dyer, London Shoreditch. Elizabeth Hake, Daur, S, 28, ..............., London Whitechapel Herman Hake, Son, 25, S, Carpenter, London Bermondsey. Albert Hake, Son, S, 23, Publishers Clerk, London Bermondsey. Beatrice Hake, Daur, S, 20, Button Hole Machinest, London Rotherhithe, Arthur N Hake, Son, S, 16, Leather **are House Lad, Kent Deptford. Walter R Hake, Son, S, 14, Publishers Office Boy, London Rotherhithe. Alfred C Hake, Son, S, 12, ............., London Rotherhithe. Rosina Hake, Daur, S, 9, .............., London Bermondsey. Kate Bond, Boarder, S, 21, Collar Ironer, London Peckham May Bond, Boarder, S, 20, Collar Ironer, London Peckham.

AAARRRGGGGHHH I ordered a rellies marriage cert this morning for a John Hake (address hd Bethnal green rd dont know what hd means?) married Elizabeth Todd (6 Essex st)great it came everything was fine now I can find John's parents searched 1861 1871 1881 1891 nope cant find his father Herman Hake John is 'full age' on his marriage cert! but his wife is 19 I have tried searching soundex still doesnt come up any suggestions???? (listed below is John on the other censuses) thx Jan x