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Ok, I have Joseph Sagar, b, dec 1857 in Barnsley on the 1901 census, but I can't find him on any of the others (except maybe 1881 with 'grandmother') Can someone please help me. Details of 1901... Living in Conisbrough, Yorkshire. Joseph, b.1857, Unknown Alice A, b.1855, Worsborough Albert, b.1886, Conisbrough Annie, b.1888, '' Harry, b.1890, '' Kate, b.1892, '' Alice,b.1894,'' Jim,b.1896,'' Joseph,b.1897,'' John,b.1900,''

Tracy - do you know his parent's names?

Yeah - John and Mary Ann Fitzsimons. Oh, I forgot - he's at home in 1871.

the 1901- Albert Sagar 15 Conisbrough, Yorkshire, England Son Conisbrough Yorkshire Alice Sagar 7 Conisbrough, Yorkshire, England Daughter Conisbrough Yorkshire Alice A Sagar 44 Worsborough, Yorkshire, England Wife Conisbrough Yorkshire Annie Sagar 13 Conisbrough, Yorkshire, England Daughter Conisbrough Yorkshire Harry Sagar 11 Conisbrough, Yorkshire, England Son Conisbrough Yorkshire Jim Sagar 5 Conisbrough, Yorkshire, England Son Conisbrough Yorkshire John Sagar 5 months Conisbrough, Yorkshire, England Son Conisbrough Yorkshire Joseph Sagar 44 N, Yorkshire, England Head Conisbrough Yorkshire Joseph Sagar 4 Conisbrough, Yorkshire, England Son Conisbrough Yorkshire Kate Sagar 8 Conisbrough, Yorkshire, England Daughter Conisbrough Yorkshire

found this possible on 1871: James Ledgar 1854 Barnsley, Yorkshire, England Son Barnsley Yorkshire John Ledgar 1850 Barnsley, Yorkshire, England Son Barnsley Yorkshire John H Ledgar 1819 Ireland Head Barnsley Yorkshire Joseph Ledgar 1856 Barnsley, Yorkshire, England Son Barnsley Yorkshire Mary Ledgar 1821 Ireland Wife Barnsley Yorkshire Thomas Ledgar 1852 Barnsley, Yorkshire, England Son Barnsley Yorkshire you never know how badly some names get mistranscribed, but do any of the other names fit?

Thanks Jess. I have that one. It's 1891 I'm struggling with. I don't think he was married to Alice in 1891. I found a marriage for 1900. I'd love to know who the mother of his kids is lol (Though if he's anything like his mother, Alice probably is)

Thanks Sarah, but that isn't him. He's down as a Fitzsimmons in 1871 just to confuse things lol Annie Fitzsimons 1868 Rotherham, Yorkshire, England Daughter Kimberworth Yorkshire Elizabeth Fitzsimons 1859 Worsbro, Yorkshire, England Daughter Kimberworth Yorkshire Ellen Fitzsimons 1871 Rotherham, Yorkshire, England Daughter Kimberworth Yorkshire James Fitzsimons 1861 Barnsley, Yorkshire, England Son Kimberworth Yorkshire Jno Fitzsimons 1820 Whiteaven, Cumberland, England Head Kimberworth Yorkshire Joseph Fitzsimons 1857 Worsbro, Yorkshire, England Son Kimberworth Yorkshire Mary Ann Fitzsimons 1841 Worsbro, Yorkshire, England Wife Kimberworth Yorkshire William Fitzsimons 1863 Barnsley, Yorkshire, England Son Kimberworth Yorkshire Charles King 1823 Poole, Dorset, England Lodger Kimberworth Yorkshire David Brower 1847 Barton, Lincolnshire, England Lodger Kimberworth Yorkshire ain't life fun? lol She had 4 kids before they married, and they all returned to Sagar when they left home lol

hows this for 1891: Sagar, Annie 3 Barnesly, Yorkshire Granddaughter Wilford Nottinghamshire Sagar, Joseph 30 Barnesly, Yorkshire Son-in-law Wilford Nottinghamshire Bailey, Charles 38 Irl Head Wilford Nottinghamshire Bailey, Fermirla 34 Barnesly, Yorkshire Wife Wilford Nottinghamshire Bailey, John 15 Barnesly, Yorkshire Son Wilford Nottinghamshire Bailey, Mary 12 Barnesly, Yorkshire Daughter Wilford Nottinghamshire Simms, John Fitz 16 Barnesly, Yorkshire Boarder Wilford Nottinghamshire On the image it does actually say 'John Fitzsimmons' lol

Ooooh Sarah - a distinct possibility :) Yes - it's 36, maybe 33 on the image and John is his brother :D Still doesn't say who his wife is though.... wonder where she and Albert are. Unless.... Albert is hers and he 'adopted' him?

Of course it doesn't make it easier that Barnsley is listed variously as being in Yorkshire, Lancashire and even Gloucestershire!! lol

OK, I know this ISN'T him, but I love the name: Batman, Albert E 6 Conisbrough, Yorkshire Son Conisbrough Yorkshire lol

lol - if only :)

Can't find a marriage between a Bailey and Joseph either. Can't find births for the kids :( Why must my family be so difficult??

From the 1901 census it appears Harry was born approx 1890 - maybe she was with other rellies having the baby, and Albert was with her - would explain why she's not with Joseph...maybe..?

Yes. I'm thinking the same thing. Can't find any of them though lol

New line of thought - Joseph is Charles Bailey's stepson - he is far too old to be son-in-law in the modern meaning - so Charles Bailey is most likely the second (or is it third) husband of Joseph's mum...in which case Alice is NOT a Bailey, so we need to look at alternatives for her maiden name. Does any of that make sense?? So if we look at the marriage in 1900 between Joseph Sagar and Alice Ann Coward, we would then be looking at the maiden name Coward, so Albert and Harry could carry that surname prior to the marriage (possibly with the name Sagar as a middle name, assuming Joseph is the father)

Thanks for that Sarah. Charles isn't his father. His mother is still with his father until after the 1901 census. I have been thinking that Albert is Alice, but not Josephs son, but I can't find a birth under that name either. My family never did like things straight forward lol