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Please refer/see to below my notes/ update of the 11/05/04. Many Thanks, Hope someone can help. J.C.

Hi John, Sometimes names and places of birth are mistranscribed. Do you have anymore info? I have found one Albert Wentzell on 1881 but it doesn't seem to be yours as this one is unmarried. 40yrs, occ - fireman living in Granton, Leigh, Essex. Laurie.

Hi John, This is all I've found on Ancestry, I have also double checked the image of 1901 for you. 1901: Albert Wentzell, Pauper, 64yrs, Widower, born Hackney, London (the same place as the Albert on 1881!!) livind Bermondsey, London. Occ looks like Stoker? Marraiges CRI: Albert Godlip Wentzell married Sept 1871, St Saviour Southwark, London, Surrey. I hope these are of some use. Laurie

Hi Laurie. Thanks for looking, - this information I have already, - the 1881 info, he is aboard the steamship S.S. Granton berthed at Leigh-on-sea in Essex. Its Charlotte I am hoping to find as she died in 1882. I'm hoping if someone can help / advise on the workhouse records, Many Thanks for your help, J.C.

Try putting Workhouses in your search engine there is a site devoted to them and from memory it tells if the records are available. At least it gives a fair amount of detail about the buildings and the operations of workhouses. By the way if you wanted info about Charlotte why didn't you put that in your question? Marlene

Hi John, Could this be them? 1891 census Living St Paul Deptford head Alfred Wentzell 32yrs b Birkenhead, Cheshire occ labourer wife Charlotte 30yrs b Woking, Surrey daur Elizabeth 5yrs b Bermondsey daur Florence 1yr b Camberwell, London son Harry 9yrs b New Haven, Sussex daur Sarah 7yrs b Bermondsey, London visitor Harriet Newson 22yrs b Tottenham, London visitor Edward Newson 4mths b New Cross, London lodger Maguire 32yrs b Deptford, London occ blacksmith lodger Polly Magiure 25yrs b Deptford London occ ?maker (wife of above) On the marraige I gave you there is also a Charlotte Sadler listed the Vol is 1d page 15 for their marraige cert. It has to be the right one. Laurie

Hello John, This might help. type in your search engine .... Workhouses and Poor Union Laws. Hope it does help Regards Vera

Hi all, Thank YOU ALL!! for all your hard work. ... The Charlotte (nee Wannell) in the 1891 Census is the wife of Alfred , Mother of Elizabeth, Sarah, Harry (my grandfather) and Florence. The Charlotte,(Wentzell nee Sadler), I am trying to locate is Alfred's mother, who died in 1882, in Guys Hospital, age 43, informant was inmate, so possibly instituitionalized dying of T.B ???, no place of birth on D.C. This is where confusion lies with the all same names. All the info that I have follows ALBERT GOTTLEIB WENTZELL b 1839 PARENTS JAMES WENTZELL / MARIA (NEE ROBERTS) Married St Dunstans 1836 (James died Penge,Croydon 1863 / on board ship???) HARRY WENTZELL b c1852 Liverpool ??? (Not the Harry on 1891 Census) ALFRED WENTZELL b 1854 Wirral, Birkenhead,Cheshire Parents JAMES WENTZELL / CHARLOTTE SADLER No Marriage cert. found ????? ALBERT WENTZELL / CHARLOTTE SADLER (Spinster) (Bachelor) (Father /Joseph Sadler) Married 1871 Southwark / (July) (Not on 1871 Census / Southwark) !!! *** THIS IS OUR SKELETON IN THE CLOSET *** !!! ALFRED WENTZELL / CHARLOTTE WANNELL Married 1879 Southwark (Not on 1881 Census but on 1891/Deptford) Marriage certificate has Charlotte Wentzell as a witness ALBERT FOUND ON 1881 Census, Unmarried aboard S.S.Granton, Leigh on se, Essex, but no sign of Charlotte / 1901Census shows Albert - Widowed, in a Bermondsey Workhouse. I AM TRYING TO LOCATE WHERE THESE WERE BETWEEN 1850 - 1881, Hope it's not to confusing, and many thanks if anyone can help. Work beckon's catch you later. MANY THANK'S AGAIN J.C.

Hiya jean is right about archives i would like to share my story with you all .My dad died 51yrs ago when i was 6 my mother remarried and all photos of my dad had to go!!my mam died21yrs ago and all she knew about my dad was he was brought up in a home and joined the merchant navy when he was 15.Last year as it was 50yrs since he died and he would have been 80 i thought i would do a bit of digging i went to bolton archives and one kind lady said leave it with me she rang me up to tell me he was put in the workhouse when he was 2 and then transfered to the childrens home when he left to go in the merchant navy.I looked on the national archives website were they have seamens records it cost me£10 and i got copys of his fingerprints ships he sailed on and a photo !!!!!! i have had it enlarged and it sits proudley on my wall i am over the moon bye sandraxx

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John - have you tried Surname Navigator mentioned several times recently? The google search seems to have several pages of results. Maybe there will be a lead? www(.)rat(.)de/kuijsten/navigator/england/index(.)html (remove brackets) Good luck! Jan

Thanks for the info Janice, much appreciated, J.C.

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Hi Maureen, Hope you got my message O.K. J.C.

Hi John Have e-mailed you but also put thanks on here in case one goes astray. Thanks for your message, yes I have tried that site, managed to find one of my elusive relatives there, but the James Renwick is so difficult, because he is in France 1871, 1881, and born before 1837 registration. I can't get any information on his son henry because he is born in France and I don't know the area, have managed to get his marriage certificate and found the family in 1891 census but can get no further back. Thanks for the thought though. Just wish I could find someone with 1841/51/61 census for Newcastle. Or someone who knew why a moulder in factory would go to france in 1870 could have been something special which could help me locate the area Henry Renwick would have been born in. Many thanks Maureen

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