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Hi Janet, Thank you very much for that. The dates are between approx. 1859 and 1881. I am presuming that he was married prior to 1870, the date of my grandfather's birth! Have sent you an e-mail with other details. Margaret Updated the dates to 1859 and 1881. He was in HEIC in India up to 1858 and then joined the British Army but I don't know the exact date.

Margaret I am not going to Kew in the near future but if you think I can help you by looking up the Army births in the FRC then as I told Richard I would probably be going there in about a month's time, then I will do so. The book is the Regimental Army book of Births and Marriages and all I need you to tell me are the names of the parents and if you know his regiment that will make it easier for me. Also the dates in between of interest to you ie 1860- 1880?. Janet

Thank you Janet. Unfortunately I live in Lancashire so can't get to Kew. It is so frustrating having some info but not the bits you need, like birth details and marriage!! I only have 1 birth cert, that of my grandfather, the other three boys were born in Dover so I presume he had been posted there after 1870. If you could help me I would be very very grateful. Please let me know if you can. Margaret

Hi Janet, Thanks for your very kind offer. Here's the information I have: Alexander McArthur, born about 1849 (probably first quarter) in Marylebone. Soldier on 1881 census, cab driver on 1891 census. First child born in Marylebone 22 Jun 1876 Alexandra Emily Holmes. Alexander married Mary Ann Holmes second quarter of 1877 in Holborn. Second child born in Marylebone 25 Mar 1881 Ethel McArthur. I'll post an update if I get any more information from the other certificates I've ordered. Thanks again, Rick.

Richard and Margaret I do think you are a bit unlucky not having the regiment on the birth cert. I may be going up to London FRC in about 4 weeks time. If you have not got any further I will look at the Regimental Baptisms Book for you that is there and see if I can find anything. Can you let me have the children's names? This was how I first found my soldier. I then had to purchase all 8 Certs as he led me a merry dance up and down the country, and across London and into Ireland. I am sure that many of them must have flouted the marriage rule of 30 as so many of them joined up at 14/15/16 and just lied about their age. Good luck Margaret with your soldier. The National Archives are amazing, so much info there and always so little time! Janet

Hi Richard, He could have got special permission I suppose, Hope you have some luck in finding your relative. All I have to do now is find out when and where mine married, at least the time has been narrowed down for sure! I was lucky, my grandfather's cert gave place of birth and regiment and rank of father, plus mother's name and place of birth Margaret

Hi Margaret, I'm with you on that one ! I'm going to try and work it all out over the weekend as it seems so very complicated. Janet is obviously a very patient person ! Our of interest, my GG grandfather married at 28, but I wonder if he was allowed to do so as a result of the illegitimate birth of my G grandmother ? Rick.

Janet, I didn't realise that soldiers at this time could not marry before they were 30. I now understand why my great grandfather's family didn't start until he was 31 years old. I had wondered if he had been married before and perhaps 1st wife had died. He married a girl from Limerick and I know that they served over there. He was in British Army from about 1860 - 1881. Before that he was in HEIC in India Campaign. I am saving this thread for future reference. I hope that the info you have given to Richard will help me find my ggrrandfather's records in British Army. I think you are amazing getting through all that rigmorole on PRO site. I can't fathom it at all!! Margaret

Thanks ever so much for your help and advice Janet - much appreciated. I've checked the birth certificate of the second daughter from 1881 (after the parents married) and it just says private soldier - no mention of a regiment. I do have the birth certificate of the oldest (illegitimate)daughter on order, so hopefully it will say on that - assuming he is the father of course. Thanks again, Rick.

Richard Discharge: 1852-1872 By Regiment 1873-1882 By Cavalry,Artillery, Infantry, or Corps These are in WO 97 1722-2171(This last No is your piece No) and you usually access piece one at a time eg 1722, 1723, 1724 etc up to 2171. If you are near enough to Kew to visit you can order up to 3 documents on line before you go and this save a fair bit of time but you can see there is a lot of docs to go through! 1882-1900 soldiers discharge filed alphabetically 1900-1913 soldiers discharge filed alphabetically Download from PRO site the leaflet from their catalogue: British Army: Soldiers' Discharge Papers, 1760-1913 Military Records Information Leaflet 5. This will give you a lot more info. If yours did not join before 1872 then 20 years on you are into 1892 so you could be in luck alphbetically. It all depends whether he signed up again for his second stint. Good luck, hope you find him. Janet

Richard. If the first child born out of wedlock then try the next child for a birth cert as that was born after marriage. Most soldiers at this time had to be over 30 before they married so there may have been some problem there. All the birth certs I have for children b to my soldier shows his regiment as the 33 Foot and his rank of sergeant. Incidentally when I did eventually get into name list my Crimean War veteran was not on the named list so there could be a few glitches on the name list anyway and the one whose regiment I do not know and cannot find is also not on the named list but I do not know at this moment whether or not his papers are there so I will have to do what I am suggesting to you. I will have to look at children born and go for a few Certs first before further looking. After all that his papers may have been destroyed as not all survived! Also army were trying to keep the peace in Ireland during the latter half of the 19 cetury so many soldiers would be doing their stint over there. Never found the census to give you any more info than soldier or retired soldier. Census does not give regiment, only birth cert will do that. If it is an uncommon name you may fare better but it is surprising how common uncommon names can be! Possibly one other point is that sometime in the 1870's I think,you did not need to know the regiment of a soldier and you may be lucky in that these are named. I know mine are earlier and I need to know regiment. I will see if I can find anything in my recent researches on that but I need a bit of time as I will have to search! My family history started when I stopped the tree and actually discovered people! My Crimean War veteran was worth all the effort as I have all his battles and musters throughout his Army life and then tracked him across London until he died, no mean feat. I would really like you to find your veteran so will put a thinking cap on. Janet

Thanks Janet. I knew he was a horse-drawn cab driver in later life but only found out last week he was a soldier before that. His daughter's birth certificate just says "private soldier" and the 1881 census says "soldier" so not much to go on just now apart from not having a very common name (for London anyway) - Alexander McArthur. I suspect he was away from London in 1876 as his daughter was born out of wedlock then and he only married her mother the following year. I'd love to find out where he was. You really start to feel the human side of some of the facts and figures when you start to think about things like that don't you ? Thanks for the information, Rick.

Not really a lot at that time as far as Britain was concerned. Mine were in the Crimea War 1852-6 and then went on to India to help put down the Indian Mutiny late 1850's and retired after his stint of 20 years in 1872. There was the Franco Prussian War 1870 but that did not affect our troops!! Often went into a Militia. I did know the regiment of mine so it was reasonably easy to access his docs but I was looking for one recently where I did not know the regiment and I spent all day at the NA with nothing to show for it so you really need to know a regiment if possible. Not impossible if you don't but very time consuming!! I found a birth for one of his children which cert gave me his regiment. Janet

Thank you Margaret, Rick.

Richard, If you go to the following site it will tell you what wars or campaigns were ongoing at the time. www(.)regiments(.)org/milhist/index I too am having difficulty trying to understand the PRO site. Am waiting, not too hopefully, that my son will move himself and go for me as he lives about 30 mins drive away!! Margaret

Thanks Janet - I couldn't work it out at all ! Does anyone have an idea what a private soldier might actually have been up to in 1876 ? My history is dreadful - were there an major conflicts going on at the time ? Thanks, Rick.

It is not totally clear as to how to access the name list on the PRO site. You need to access it by the catalogue reference no. These docs are usually in WO 97 and even knowing this much you then need to know the piece number. so you need to know the three reference sections before you will get the name list. Even if you do manage to access the names it will not be of much help to you as that is all you will get, just a list of names which might include many names of the name you are interested in for example John Smith might occur 20 times or more! You need to visit the the National Archives and actually access the attestation documents. These documents are not available on line. You can however order three items prior to going to the NA which does save a fair bit of time when you get there to be able to research. All army/navy records up to 1922 are in the NA but anything after that is not yet open to the public so you have to make out a special case as to why you would be entitled to have them and this usually means having to prove that you are next of kin and a fee of £25 for approx one page of info. Incidentally if a person has gone missing in 1919 then you have to allow another few years, which means those docs then occur after 1922 so you won't find those in the NA either. iJanet

Hi Jane, I'm also looking for army records for about 1876/77. I went to the PROCAT site, but unless I'm being totally thick (always possible) there doesn't seem to be any sort of name index. I can see that it tells you which microfiche records are held at Kew, but nothing online that enables you to search for an ancestor. Am I missing something ? Thanks, Rick.

Paul, If you're looking for WW1 or earlier, you might find records at the PRO. Should this be the case, try looking at their online catalogue - PROCAT - for both an alphabetical listing for his surname, then also by regiment (if you know it). What this will/might bring you is his 'papers' - consisting usually of Attestation (joining up) Papers, plus personal details like height, colour of eyes and possibly details of family, as well as where he served. If your man is a WW2 soldier, then that's a whole new ball game ... you have to be a direct descendant/next of kin and it'll cost you £25 at the Hayes office address mentioned in the earlier posting by Paul. Good luck. Jane

Can anyone please tell me if it is possible to get into army service records. I am not looking for anyone that died, rather to find out their age, as I know they were later on an army pension. Thanks, Paul C