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Mary Ellen Collinge (born 1887) is my G Grandmother and her birth certificate states her parents, my GG Grandparents, are Eliza Ann Collinge (maiden Wolstenholme) and Samuel Henry Collinge. I can't locate any marriage reference for them even though I have found them in the 1891 census with their 3 children. Location salford, manchester or pendleton.

Also, I have located again Samuel Collinge and his 3 children (ages match the previous census) in the 1901 census but he now has an additional 2 children and a different wife called Annie. Again I can't find their marriage anywhere, or what happened to Eliza Ann Wolstenholme.

Annie and Eliza Ann are not the same person as their ages don't match in the censuses.

My head hurts from trying to work this one out and I can't seem to get any further. I hope fresh eyes will help me with this one. Thanks to everyone in advance.

Have you tried looking for variations in the spelling ? I have a couple of Woolstenhulme's in my tree, to quote one example !

What year is the birth of their oldest child - Eliza and Samuel - I'll see if I can help

Maybe.....?

Marriages Sep 1887
BLOOMFIELD Elizabeth Salford 8d 96
>>COLLINS Samuel Henry Salford 8d 96
Ward George Salford 8d 96
>>WOLSTENHOLME Eliza Ann Salford 8d 96

Hi, thanks to everyone for responding so quickly.

Jayne, According to the 1891 census their eldest son is called George age 9, therefore birth year will be 1882. The 1891 census also says he and Eliza have 2 other children, Arthur age 5 and Harold age 1.

Thanks again.

Ok - so its best to search marriages "around" 1891, assuming they married at time of first child

For ref/info

1891 census transcription details for: 48, Belfort Street, Salford
National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG12 Piece: 3225 Folio: 127 Page: 52

Reg. District: Salford Sub District: Regent Road
Enum. District: 35 Ecclesiastical District: St Clements
Parish: Salford City/Municipal Borough: Salford
Address: 48, Belfort Street, Salford
County: Lancashire
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation,
Disability Where Born
COLLINGE, Samuel H Head Married M 25 1866 Knocker Up
Manchester, Lancashire
COLLINGE, Eliza A Wife Married F 24 1867
Manchester, Lancashire
COLLINGE, Mary E Daughter F 3 1888
Salford, Lancashire
COLLINGE, Horatio W Son M 2 1889
Salford, Lancashire
COLLINGE, William Son M 0 (9M) 1891
Salford, Lancashire

Are you sure you have the right family in 1901:


1901 England Census about Horatio Collinge
Name: Horatio Collinge
Age: 12
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1889
Relation: Son
Mother's Name: Elizabeth A
Gender: Male
Where born: Salford, Lancashire, England

Civil Parish: Salford
Ecclesiastical parish: Ordsall in Salford St Clement
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street address: 48 Belfort Street

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

Registration district: Salford
Sub registration district: Regent Road
ED, institution, or vessel: 30
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 116
Household Members:
Name Age
Elizabeth A Collinge 34 - Widow - Knocker Up
Horatio Collinge 12
Maggie Collinge 7
Mary E Collinge 13
William Collinge 11


Deaths Mar 1899 (>99%)
Collinge Samuel Henry 33 Salford 8d 100

Blimey, you're right 'Lost', I've that many notes i've mixed up the names, I do apologise, sorry to jayne too.

I'll get it right this time:

George Leech 1901 census married to Annie (no surname) with children arthur age 15, george, harold and james. Cant find their marriage.
In 1991 census George leech is with Eliza Ann Wolstenholme, cant find marriage or what happened to her.

Thank again and for being patient.
'Lost' your previous info is really helpful too, you're v quick.

This is the above marriage from Lancashire bmd and confirms Samuel and Eliza' marriage in the same district as the census, although the name is Collins not Collinge !?!

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1887
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
COLLINS Samuel H WOLSTENHOLME Eliza A Salford St Clements Salford C47/2/116

Is this them? For ref/info

1901 England Census about George Leech
Name: George Leech
Age: 41
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1860
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Annie
Gender: Male
Where born: Salford, Lancashire, England

Civil Parish: Salford
Ecclesiastical parish: Ordsall in Salford St Clement
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street address: 245 Robert Hall St

Occupation: Cotton Packer

Condition as to marriage: Married

Education:

Employment status:

Registration district: Salford
Sub registration district: Regent Road
ED, institution, or vessel: 29
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 22
Household Members:
Name Age
Annie Leech 28
Arthur Leech 15
George Leech 41
George W Leech 19
Harold Leech 11
James Leech 7 months
John Leech 2

Lost, thanks for that, it is definitely collinge not collins, might be a typo, what do you think?

have you found this info just by searching on genesreunited records search? I must be doing something wrong if you're finding them so quickly lol.

I wonder if you could help with the 1901 census and a surname/marriage of the 'Annie' wife of George Leech, again salford. Also his wife also Eliza not wolstenholme) in the 1991 census.

Thank you.

yes thats the one Lost, thanks. please see email above re george leech 1991 census and i still cant find any of his marriages to eliza nor annie.

Thank you again

typo 1891 census not 1991 sorry ;o)

Hi Ruth

No for bmd records I use

http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/

or

http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl

Both free to search. Lancashire bmd is probably one of the best local bmd records available online. It's great for marriages as it gives the spouse also if they have been married previously it gives the marriage in both surnames (maiden and previous married) it also gives mmn on some births before 1911 which is useful.

Regards
LfW

This them in 1891 :-)

1891 England Census about George Leech
Name: George Leech
Age: 32
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1859
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Elora J (image is ELiza J)
Gender: Male
Where born: Salford

Civil Parish: Salford
Ecclesiastical parish: St Bartholomew
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street address: 5 Vine Grove

Occupation: Foundry Labourer

Condition as to marriage: Married

Education:

Employment status:

Registration district: Salford
Sub registration district: Regent Road
ED, institution, or vessel: 22
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Arthur Leech 5
Elora J Leech 35 - Southampton
George Leech 32
George W Leech 9
Harold Leech 1

Possible marriage:

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1878
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
LEECH George ROBERTS Eliza J Salford St Bartholomew Salford C43/3/338

Corresponding entry from freebmd (slight variation in middle name).

Marriages Mar 1878 (>99%)
DEAN Mary Salford 8d 71
JOHNSON Samuel Salford 8d 71
>>> Leech George Salford 8d 71
>>> ROBERTS Eliza Ann Salford 8d 71

Looks like that is the correct marriage. Here they are on the 1881 census and Eliza' place of birth matches the 1891:

1881 census transcription details for: No 9 Storey Street, Salford
National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG11 Piece: 3958 Folio: 114 Page: 34

Reg. District: Salford Sub District: Greengate
Enum. District: Ecclesiastical District:
Parish: Salford City/Municipal Borough:
Address: No 9 Storey Street, Salford
County: Lancashire
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation,
Disability Where Born
LEECH, George Head Married M 22 1859 Church Cleaner
Salford, Lancashire
LEECH, Eliza Jane Wife Married F 25 1856
Southampton, Hampshire

Thanks for all the help Lost, and for the links. I'll definitely give them a go. Is it common do you think for different search indexes to have different info? For eg the marriage you have for george leech and eliza matches other info i have, yet the census says Elora? everything else matches so I suppose it has to be a typo.
Fabulous stuff Lost. Do you do this sort of thing for a living or just for the challenge?
Not being cheeky, ok i am, did you find anything for the marriage of george leech to an Annie as in the 1901 census for them? thanks.

Hi Ruth

I always wanted to be a demolition worker and blow up big buildings but it never happened so instead I use my time smashing down our genealogical brick walls :-) lol

Yes definitely, if you look at the image it does look like Eliza. Literacy was very low back then and most things were spelt how they sounded to the person writing it down, if you think about Eliza having a southern accent in Lancashire I would imagine their could be quite a few variations. Then there's transcription errors and info sent from one place to another each time it could vary. It's the same with ages, they didn't count years and would often say how old they thought(!) they were so it can vary, usually the older they get the more difference so don't discount someone just because the age is a few years out! When your searching don't narrow it down too much or if you don't find what you're looking for widen the search. Oh yes and then you have the ones who switch their names round so Eliza Jane becomes Jane Eliza :-)

No sorry can't see a marriage for George and Annie but I found this possible death for Eliza:

Deaths Jun 1893 (>99%)
Leech Eliza Jane 36 Salford 8d 108

I'm off to bed now, will take another look tomorrow.

Have fun and if you get stuck don't be afraid to ask for help :-)

Regards
LfW