Genealogy Chat

Re the 15X code (even though that's not your family) -

"Before the census schedules reached the punch-card girls, however, each one was examined by a clerical officer who made annotations in a distinctive green ink. Presumably, green was chosen as a colour it was thought unlikely that householders would use it when filling in their forms. Principal among the green-ink annotations is the coding of occupation, but ****** you may see others in different parts of the forms."
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=857404.0

Still doesn't explain that particular code, unfortunately.


But-
Other people with Irish ancestors have asked about it, too. It does seem to indicate nationality:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Genealogy/comments/swcece/15x_on_1921_census/

What was the occupation of the father named on Michael’s marriage certificate?

Does it tally with that of either of the fathers on the birth/baptism records?

Yes... I agree it is tempting to think it might be that one. Thanks again!

Censuses say:
1861 Roscommon (1911); 1861 Ireland (1901); 1859 Ireland (1891); 1858 Ireland (possibly, in 1881 census).
Death record suggests c1862-3.

Even IF one of those two births is the correct one, it's really impossible to say which, although the one with mother Eleanor is tempting.

But there's no way to prove which one, if either, might be the right one.

Morning everyone. I have found 2 Michael Lyons with the father called Patrick born in Roscommon. One in 1862 and one in 1857. Which one would be the correct one?! The death certificate and 1911 census say he was 50 years old meaning 1862 would make sense. On other previous censues they put his estilated birth year at around 1858. His marriage certificate in 1883 says he was 24 so approx 1859.
On the earlier Irish birth, the mother's name is Eleanor, which would also potentially make sense as his eldest daughter Ellen's (the same one on his death certificate) legal name on her birth certificate was actually Eleanor (but they called her Ellen and her mother's name was also Ellen). Am I jumping to conclusions again by thinking his mother might have been Eleanor?

Thank you for your help!

We know the feeling!
I'm sure we all have people in our trees where the trail runs cold because of lack of firm evidence.

There is also a Michael Lyons, dad Patrick born in Roscommon is 1862. This makes more sense if he was aged 50 when he died in 1912.
The whole thing is frustrating!

Documentary evidence is always good!

I have a copy of his death certificate. His daughter Ellen Allen was present at his death (the same Ellen Allen on the 1911 census).

You say Michael died in 1912.

Are you just assuming that the man below is him, or have you seen the actual death cert?

Deaths Sep 1912 (>99%)
Lyons Michael 50 Derby 7b 558


Michael Lyons
Birth
1862
Death
12 Sep 1912 (aged 49–50)
Burial
Nottingham Road Cemetery
Chaddesden, Derby Unitary Authority, Derbyshire, England
Plot
A38, 50175
Memorial ID
256469705
Gravesite Details
Age: 50, Death date listed may be the interment date

Thank you for your advice! I will scratch the 1921 one then and stick to Roscommon.
Incidentally I have found a potential birth record on rootsireland for Michael Lyons, father Patrick Lyons (the fathers name is on his marriage certificate), born 1857 in Ballintubber, Roscommon.

Sorry, Sarah, but it’s unwise to jump to conclusions without finding proof.

Lyons is a common name - postman was a common job in those days.

Check births for MMN and then find marriages etc, etc.

If you want help, it will be willingly given on here.

Incidentally, the 1921 census records Michael Thomas Lyon’s as GRANDfather to the head of the household

Yes, you're right about the middle name- it's not on any other census or document.
Is it possible it could be a mistake by someone else in the house? They included him but got the details wrong?

The similar names of two different censuses I could understand. But what are the chances of having two different Thomas Lyons, in the same area, with the same childrens names, both being postmen? I really think it's the same person simply because of the postman connection.

Suggest you follow the link on FMP from 1921 census to 1911

OR……..re-check the line from yourself getting proof of every step

The man in 1911 you’ve picked on married in 1883 as Michael Lyons ..NO second forename, and he’s 13 years younger than the 1921 man

But the other names on the 1921 census make perfect sense to me. They are Michael's son Thomas and his wife Mary (my great grandparents- Thomas was listed as postman on all other documents too), and their youngest children Marie and Thomas. The kids were born in Dewsbury/ Wakefield and later the family moved to Blackpool where my grandmother and her other siblings were born. The youngest son Thomas died of diabetes in 1933 (where the father is also listed as postman).

1911 your man is recorded as a WIDOWER, born c1861.

1901 birthplace is simply ‘Ireland’…..ditto 1891

Age varies on censuses, so you’ll have to be flexible in your searching for his baptism

So the 1921 is a totally different man and he is on 1911 with family

Born 1848 and living in Wakefield

Hi, the 1911 census says Roscommon.

He was living with his children Mary, Jack (actually called John), William (Actually James William), and Ellen (married name Allen), and Ellen's son William Allen. Address was 59 Walker Lane Derby. His marital status says single but he was widowed in 1907.