Genealogy Chat

I would like some help on this, as it is a puzzle to me. Middle name that are last names that are given to their children. Is there a different in the order of siblings in which they are given middle name. When is the Mothers last name given to her children, when is the father mother last name given to her children. Is the first and middle name given to one side of the family or does it represent both. I am curious as to why a set of twins girl/boy were given the same middle name. There births are in the middle of the siblings.

Were the parents married? If the children were registered in mums name is the middle name the fathers surname? This has happened on my tree, Pat

Don't think there is a particular convention for this. It could be: a) use of father's surname when birth was illegitimate. b) use of mother's , grandmother's or even umptyX great grandmother's maiden name which they have decided to use because it is in danger of dying out or just because there is a family tradition of using it c) use of surname of a family memer who they are hoping will leave them something in a will d) surname of a god parent as that person's christian name is already in use in the family

I agree with Pat, it is almost always an indication that the parents werent married. As a single mother was not allowed to put the name of the father on the birth certificate without the father being present to agree, this was a very common ruse to get the father's name on the certificate. Example - Ann Bloggs, singlewoman has a child fathered by Fred Flintstone. The child will be registered as Archibald Flintstone Bloggs. this is the woman's way of saying to the world 'I DO know who the father of my child is'. But of course, married couples often used a family surname as a middle name for a child. I have never heard of any hard and fast rule for this. In your case, where you have twins with the same middle name, I would suspect that Mum wasnt married when she registered the birth of the children - but I could be wrong. Olde Crone

Personally I always get confused by threads like this. Sometimes I think ancestors gave children a particular because they could and its what they felt like at the time. My own name in years to come may provoke a discussion like this as my middle name is Joy and my maternal Grandmother's name is Joyce. In fact my Mum named me after a pretty clematis called Traveller's Joy and my first name was after a girl at my Mum's school. My Dad was named by his sister after Donald Duck - never give a child that job. Though the rest of his siblings are named in order after his mother's brother, name they liked at the time with father's name as a middle and mother's mother. To answer your question it could be any family name they thought sounded good or wanted the please a particular member with twins to provide for.

Hi Donald I've noticed it where the daughter is given mum's christian name her maiden name then dad's surname and sometimes a son named after mum's father is given his first name, surname then dad's surname. Hope that makes sense. Heather

I have a lot of examples of surnames for middle names and the parents were definately married. Often a child quite a long way down the family is given the name. Why not the first? - I don't know! One thing I can say it is a boon for research, specially if its a less common name. My favourite is WESTERBY EAST! (Westerby being his mother's surname. He was about 6th or 7th in a large family. Anne

I also think it could be if the surname was dying out. For example, My father had 2 daughters, Therefore the name Melia is going to die out when I get married. If I have another child I would probably give the child Melia as a middle name. Pat

Slightly off the subject, but my old dad always said 'never trust ANYONE whos Given/Christian name and Surname are BOTH Surnames'. Jarvis Cocker, Rowan Atkinson etc: <grin>

Well, I've got middle names which are surnames all over my tree and none of these people were illegitimate!! Mostly they are the mum's maiden name or the maiden name of one of the grandmothers of the baby. In one case the children are all given the surname of a rich ''cousin-by-marriage'' as a middle name. Were they hoping to inherit??!!!! If they were, it didn't work! Merry

Hi, Very many my of 18th and 19th C ancestors were given the mother's maiden name as a second surname as were loads in the parish records. They were certainly married at the time as I have their marriages noted. Quite often I've also found the surname from several generations back, particularly if it indicates a link to a 'distinguished' family of the area. My grandmother was given the Capps surname as a middle name as was her father whose mother was a Capps. Gwynne

Judith appears to have covered the alternatives pretty succinctly. Where different surnames are used (two distant uncles are named after their aunts' husbands) I suspect godparents. Where just about every child, over several generations, has one surname as a Christian name, then I suspect money and influence - certainly not an instance of the surname dying out as the village was overrun with it. The trouble with illegitimacy is that the woman may have been inspired by malice and it isn't a pointer to the real father.

This happens in my family quite a lot, in fact my brother is the 4th Michael Gibson Kirk, and through the reseach I've done I've found the original Michael Gibson who was born in the mid-1700's. I like to think he would like to know he was being remembered by this tradition 250 years after his birth! Also I think it can give you a lead when you hit a brick wall, only time that's awkward is when you've got several sirnames as middle names amongst the same group of siblings!!!! lol Carol

my husband has his mothers maiden name tokeep it going as hisv middle name.(worsley) Another ancestor of his(9 generations back) has his surname carried as a middle name but as the name is Nicholas it doesn't stand out as a surname.