Genealogy Chat

I am trying to trace my grt grt grandparents Abraham Morris born Poland c1836 and Phoebe born Swansea c 1845. We have been told that he changed his name to Morris when he arrived in the UK. I have found him on the 1861 census residing in Neath, Glamorgan. By 1871 he had married Phoebe. I have been in contact with the Synagogue in Swansea but they had no information on Abraham or Phoebe only their sons. I cannot find a marriage for them, but would Jewish weddings have been documented? I think I have found Abraham’s death – Neath 1906 age 68. Where do I go from hear, any suggestions? Thanks, Angela

What was Phoebe's maiden name? Merry

I have no idea as I can't find a marriage for them. I'm really stuck!! Angela

So you need to get a birth cert for one of their children, which will have her maiden name on it! Merry

If you have details of their sons then Phoebe's maiden name will be on the sons birth certificates. Kath. x

I found this:- The way in which the process of marriage shall take place was laid down in Hardwicke's Marriage Act of 1754. This Act laid down that marriages (with the exception of Quakers and Jews) could only take place in the Parish Church and were either by banns or by licence. I could be that they married in a registry office or another syngogue. Either way the marriage should be listed in the GRO index. Just a note, Neath is not that far away from Swansea.

Angela where are they in 1871? Georgina.

They resided in Neath in 1971. I live in neath myself and the only synagogue is in Swansea. I shall order a birth cert of one of the children to get her maiden name. Thanks Angela

ALL MARRIAGES TAKING PLACE AFTER 1ST JULY 1837 have to be registered. This includes all weddings, regardless of whether they took place in a register office, C of E church, Catholic chapel, meeting house, synagogue or anywhere else. But I can tell you that some Jewish weddings also took place in private houses, not synagogues. You could try looking on the various databases on the Jewish Gen site - you have to register to search, but its free: www.jewishgen.org/ Many Jewish surnames were patronymics. It's possible Abraham chose Morris as an anglicized version of Moses, or maybe he chose a Welsh surname to fit in with his new home. nell

Is this them? 1871 Neath Glamorgan Alexchan Morris abt 1833 Poland Head Neath Glamorgan [image says Abraham] Pheobe Morris abt 1845 Swansea, Glamorgan, Wife Esther Morris abt 1869 Neath, Daughter Hannah Thorn abt 1851 Bristol, Somerset, Servant

Here they are in 1881 with middle initials! Abraham MORRIS Head M Male 45 Poland Glazier Phoebe MORRIS Wife M Female 37 Swansea, Glamorgan, Wales Glazier Wife Esther H. MORRIS Daur Female 12 Neath, Glamorgan, Wales Scholar Louisa R. MORRIS Daur Female 10 Neath, Glamorgan, Wales Scholar Henry M. MORRIS Son Male 7 Neath, Glamorgan, Wales Scholar Joseph B. MORRIS Son Male 3 Neath, Glamorgan, Wales Laura MORRIS Daur Female 8 m Neath, Glamorgan, Wales So, pick a birth reg.......here is Louisa's: Births Jun 1871 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MORRIS Louisa Rebecca Neath 11a 542 If you buy that birth cert you will have Phoebe's maiden name!!! Merry

On the other hand, and jumping ahead!!........I'm putting my money (well, a few pence!) with this marriage: Marriages Sep 1865 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joseph Phoebe Plymouth 5b 523 Van hierop Abraham Plymouth 5b 523 Van Nierop Abraham Plymouth 5b 523 Despite it being completely out of the area!!!! Maybe he had to pop home for some reason? Anyway.....You see, there is this Phoebe Joseph with all the right birth details: 1851 Esther Joseph abt 1839 Merthyr Tydfil, Glamorgan, Wales Daughter Swansea Glamorgan Hannah Joseph abt 1849 Swansea, Glamorgan, Wales Daughter Swansea Glamorgan Harris Joseph abt 1803 Poland Head Swansea Glamorgan Margaret Joseph abt 1819 Poland Wife Swansea Glamorgan Michael Joseph abt 1847 Swansea, Glamorgan, Wales Son Swansea Glamorgan >>>>Pheobe Joseph abt 1844 Swansea, Glamorgan, Wales Daughter Swansea Glamorgan Note they are Polish as well! Harris is a Hawker. 1861: Harris Joseph abt 1804 Poland Head Swansea Glamorgan Margaret Joseph abt 1799 Poland Wife Swansea Glamorgan >>>>Pheobe Joseph abt 1845 Swansea, Glamorgan, Wales Daughter Swansea Glamorgan Reuben M Joseph abt 1860 Swansea, Glamorgan, Wales Son Swansea Glamorgan Rosa Joseph abt 1854 Swansea, Glamorgan, Wales Daughter Swansea Glamorgan and in this one (above), Harris is a Window Glazier, just like Abraham! Even if that's the wrong marriage, I still think this is the right Phoebe! Merry