Genealogy Chat

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Hi, I have an ancestor who died in 1882 during his Prison sentence, in Kent. I know his date of death and birth. The only death I can find for him (and the age at death does tie in with his birth date) was registered in Warwickshire, the district he grew up and lived in at the time that he was sent to prison, not in the district that he was imprisoned (Kent) and probably died. Is this usual? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Steven.

Hmm...not sure...but I have a distant ancestor who was from Clerkenwell in London and he ended up in Gillingham Prison, Kent by 1871 and died there in 1875. His death cert was registered as Medway, Kent (Gillingham coming under Medway district). Not sure if that's any help. Are you sure your ancestor hadn't been released shortly before he died? Unless his family registered his death in their area??? With my ancestor there was an inquest held, so not sure if this is why his was registered at the prison area. Someone else might shed further light... Leah

Hi Leah, Thanks for the reply. He was sentenced to 14 years in 1879, and definitely died in 1882 aged 22. His brother was also sentenced to 14 years at the same time (wounding with intent to murder). His brother was released early but not sure how early; I just know he was out by the 1891 census. Both brothers were in Chatham Convict Prison in 1881. I would doubt that they were released by 1882, but maybe they appealed. The report of the case stated that they hit a gamekeeper, who with two others, caught them poaching. However they hit him with a shotgun, and then ran off, knowing the three people who had spotted them knew who they were. I would have thought if there was intent to murder they would have shot him, and his two accomplices. Having said that the gun was fired, and they did hit him on the head, so that may have been enough to demonstrate intent. The gamekeeper was put in a bad way, and recorded as an ‘invalid’ in subsequent census, so they certainly deserved to be sent to prison for a good few years, even if they did appeal against the “intent”. I thought I'd ask the initial question, because I would have expected his death to be recorded in Kent had he died in prison (as in the case of your ancestor), and not in Warwickshire where he lived before being sent to Prison. I have just sent off for the death certificate, hopefully it will shed some light on his death, and possibly whether he was in fact released early after all. I can't see any other possible deaths in the indexes (his name is fairly uncommon) so I'm as certain as I can be that the death registration is for him, and not someone else. Thanks again for your reply. Steven.

Would have thought ANY death would be recorded in the area that they died. For instance my grt gran died in the German Hospital Dalston in 1907.her death is recorded in Hackney which Dalston came under,she lived inS E London which is on the other side of the thames.She was taken home to SE London & burried in the local cemetary

Hi Shirley, That was my understanding too, and I was therefore expecting his death certificate to be registered in the same district as Chatham Prison, but the only possible registration (and the dates all tie together) is in the district he grew up in, over 150 miles away. I had assumed he had died in prison, because I know he was sentenced to 14 years in 1879, I know he was in prison in 1881, and I know he died in 1882 at the age of 22 in 1882 – his death was recorded in two family bibles (one now resides in New Zealand, the other in the UK), and he is missing from the 1891 census onward. But maybe he was released early after all. Maybe his story (and possibly that of his brother) has a few twists yet. Hopefully the certificate will help clarify things – although it looks as if it may raise more questions than it will answer. I’m really looking forward to receiving it now. Thanks, Steven.

having done some research on my great uncles prison records, i found him in derby gaol in 1881his home town and gillingham kent in 1891, the first one 1881 he got a short sentance 3 months, but the second he got 5 years penal serveitude, which you did not serve in the local gaol, but in gillingham or porland i.o.w which was for longer sentances with hard labour, thats why people appear in gaol away from there home town, local gaols were for light sentances.

Just a thought! perhaps he wa s transferred to a prison nearer his home

Is it possible that as he died so young, that he was taken ill in prison and transferred to a hospital near his own home while still being a prisoner.

Yes, being transferred nearer, due to illness or injury, sounds like a very good possibility; hopefully the certificate will throw some light on it. It does go to show it’s worth getting the death certificates. They are usually the last certificates I purchase, and they generally confirm pretty much what I already know. So although a necessary purchase, other than providing closure and a few details on cause of death I find them a bit of an anti-climax compared to Marriage & Birth certificates.. However on this occasion the death certificate has drawn my attention to something I may not have known about him, even though I have known about these brothers (they are my great great uncles) for several years. I knew the date he died, so my main reason for looking into the certificate was why he died so young, not where he died. However it looks as if his place of death may be just as enlightening as his cause of death at such a young age. Although I always get death certificates for my bloodline ancestors (grandparents, great grandparents, etc.), I don’t usually get them for their siblings, but in this case I thought it important as his conviction, and death at an early age would impact upon the lives of my great grandparents greatly, and of course it makes the history a little more interesting. Hopefully the death certificate will reveal something – here’s hoping it’s not an anti-climax, but if it tells me the place of death and cause of death, that should help, and the name of the informant may help too. Thanks again for your opinions and help. Steven.

A lot of old life sentences used to be for life and a day so that people would often be buried in the prison grounds or near by but by 19th century the family would be given the body back if they wanted it. There might have been an inquest. I would have thought it was worth looking.

I think I read somewhere that deaths in prisons were always followed by a post-mortem. Or perhaps it was lunatic asylums. nell