Genealogy Chat

Does anyone know what a Journeyman would have been in around 1888 please. Thanks Pam.

A journeyman was someone who had completed an apprenticeship and then had to practice their trade away from their hometown (and/or where they had been apprenticed) for seven years. A journeyman was not a trade, and could be one of quite a large number of trades. Usually it would say 'Journeyman carpenter' or the like. Victoria

Thanks for that I was wondering the same thing. Though it's listed for some of the fathers as well as sons and I would have thought that they would have finished by the time they were a parent.

Little Oxford English Dictionary definition as follows. 'Qualified or artisan working for another. ' That probably explains why older people were called journeyman they were woking for another qualified tradesman

I served an apprenticeship, in the 50's as a Journeyman Electrician.mostly in the contracting side of the business. they also had a workshop for motor rewinds etc. I guess it means that 'you'' work outside,for other people , rather than staying in the factory... Bob added later... 15:30 my training meant that I would be attached to various electricians, thus learning different working practices. for example, one of the electricians would specialise in cable jointing, and another would excel at conduit bashing, another the trunking expert, but all were excellent, overall, as electricians. (in theory, I should have been expert at everything)

The word 'journeyman' comes from the French derivative 'Jour' and actually means 'paid by the day' once the apprentice had finished his apprenticeship. It did not matter whether he stayed in the same place or not, and has nothing to do with 'journeying' away from his home place. Janet

I have a journeyman blacksmith in my tree,come census night he is always down as a boarder,though married,at various addresses throughout the east midlands,looks like he only got home to add to the family,then went on his way again. Glen

Wonder if 'journee' (roughly pron: jure-nay =day) is a hangover from when French was the official language of England .... yes really, it was, for about 400 years -following the Norman Conquest! Jx

Yes Jane correct. I was at a lecture last evening that was all about our everyday usages of language and Journeyman came up as a French derivative. Bon 'Jour' etc etc and the interesting point that the apprentice was known as a 'jouneyman' as he was paid daily or every day. I have always been aware that it has nothing to do with journeying around the country, but was not aware of the French connection until last night. Apprentices are one of our oldest 'trades' and were in existence when old French/Latin was spoken and written throughout the land until the 1500's which is why you will need an understanding of this mix of old French and Latin to be able to take trees back beyond 1538. Janet

Wikipedia suggests a bit of both 'A journeyman is a tradesman or craftsman who may well have completed an apprenticeship but is not yet able to set up their own workshop as a master. In parts of Europe, as in later medieval Germany, spending time as a journeyman, moving from one town to another to gain experience of different workshops, was an important part of the training of an aspirant master. In later medieval England, however, most journeymen remained as employees throughout their careers, lacking the financial resources to set up their own workshops. The word 'journeyman' comes from the French word journée, meaning the period of one day; this refers to his right to charge a fee for each day's work. He would normally be employed by a master craftsman, but would live apart and might have a family of his own. A journeyman could not employ others. In contrast, an apprentice would be bound to a master, usually for a fixed term of seven years, and lived with the master as a member of the household. The grade of journeyman is sometimes subdivided into two: journeyman improver and journeyman proper. The terms jack and knave are sometimes used as informal words for journeyman. Hence 'Jack of all trades, master of none' — someone who has learnt several trades, but is not yet skilled enough in any to set up his own workshop as a master.' Bob