Genealogy Chat

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Got the birth cert of a Stephen Samuel Silby born 1841 in St George in the East. Only kid born after registration for the parents, Joseph Silby and Mary. Cert shows mum as Mary Pitman. Check out marriages - great Mary Pitman to Joseph Silby in 1816 BUT but, that would make Joe only 16 and Mary only 15. I could accept they were only kids when they married but Joseph has a skilled job of ships joiner which would need an apprenticeship but these two were producing kids from 1817 up to 1841!!! Though Stephen was an after thought of about 5 years I think. Mary I can believe but Joseph came up from Penzance and I cant see how he could fit in an apprenticeship and be married as it was SO frowned upon, let alone very poorly paid.

I think you need to find out when and how long apprenticeships went on for. But I believe my grandfather was apprenticed at 12 - 4 years would be long enough to qualify. On the other hand they could be a bit older than you thought - are you going on their ages on the census or have you found baptisms for both? nell

I havent found Mary but I have found Joseph getting baptised in Penzance in 1800 and that is the date on the census, so it must be the right couple. And he has a strange second name of Hoskin or Hosking which appears on one childs marriage cert. Just cant put my finger on it but something seems strange.

Hi Heather Was the marriage in the same part of London? I think the names are quite unusual enough to be the same people. If she had the first baby at say 16 or 17, she could still be having them at 41/42. Suzy (in Orpington)

Maybe he was apprenticed to a relative of Mary's or he married into the family to get his foot in the door - do you know anything about her family at all?

Oh yes, I am pretty safe on them being the right couple. Well, absolutely safe. I wonder if he learnt his trade at sea? Which I suppose would be less pressure on family income. Dont know, need to look into this further. Have found his bro, Thomas, also born Penzance but moved to London and also a ships joiner. Oh Nell, just seen your posting - oh that makes me feel happier. So he could have been apprenticed down in Cornwall and then made his way to London docks with bro Thomas and got poor old Mary in the family way almost immediately! Id got into my mind 8 years apprenticeship, I suppose because all my lightermen had to do that. No Zoe, not found anything for her yet. Only got cert yesterday and not allowed to play much because of hubbys work to do! It is so LOVELY having all you peeps to talk to and be a sounding board. Thanks so much guys. Pitmans, here I come ..................

Hi Heather My shipwright ancestor had to marry at twenty. I don't think he had two happence to rub together: it's hard to believe that he had any formal apprenticeship. All the Silbys in Rotherhithe are just round the corner from each other, so I'm sure you have got the right family. Starting a family that young must have been a huge strain on the family purse, but I suspect that the strongest pressures that would be exerted would be for the young people to marry, with Mary's family no doubt pushing to make sure that Joseph stayed in work. Brenda

From the Nat Archives research leaflet on apprenticeships: 'Apprenticeships not Recorded in the Apprenticeship Books Formal indentures involved some trouble and expense. By the eighteenth century apprenticeships were often undertaken without any formal indenture, especially in common trades such as weaving. In many trades it was expected that men would bring up their sons or nephews to the trade. Further, it was ruled that the Statute of Apprentices did not extend to trades which did not exist when it was passed in 1563; this excluded many eighteenth-century industries, most notably the cotton industry. In many areas the Statute was not enforced, and in the Yorkshire woollen industry formal apprenticeship hardly existed by the end of the eighteenth century.' nell

Heather Far be it from me to be rude about your ancestors, BUT You only have HIS word for it that he was a QUALIFIED Ship's carpenter - he is a very long way from home when he says this! As he is from Penzance, and every man and his dog was involved in boats and the sea, it is quite possible that he picked the trade up, rather than being formally apprenticed. I nkow that a Ship's carpenter would need an apprenticeship - but not sure there is an actual trade of ship's joiner - correct me if I am wrong. The peculiar name you quote - Hoskins or Hockings - is just about the commonest surname here in West Penwith. Olde Crone

My rellie (b 1832) never served any sort of apprenticeship, yet became a fellow of the Institution of Civil Engineers! He spent his teen years working in his father's grocers shop - then he lied his way into an important engineering job! Luckily he was a natural and so he managed not to kill anyone! He helped construct the Crumlin Viaduct in Wales (a mamoth feat of engineering) and went on to design and built iron bridges all around the world, inc the old Blackfriar's Railway Bridge in London. All this on no formal training! Merry

Thanks everyone for your input. Its some comfort as I knew this was the right family (and Brenda helped me confirm that) as they were in Rotherhithe, both Joe and Tom his brother, and then appear in St George in the East but with the wife and eldest boy with them still both from Rotherhithe. Im just amazed at the age he married - and she was only 15 ish! Poor kid. I thought youd have to give papers to show your apprenticeship. The lightermen are so very organised like that. I had one ancestor start his apprenticeship, apparently got dumped cos he married and then went back to it about 12 years later. In all a 20 year apprenticeship! Joe appears also as a shipwright which is a pretty skilled job, but I guess as you say, born in Penzance he was probably carving out bits of boats when he was a toddler and perhaps the employers in Rotherhithe just went by the skills he and his brother obviously had. Hoskins the most common name down there is it? Oh, that will be fun then! Ive found a John Silby marrying a Mary Hoskin in Madron.