Genealogy Chat

Where would their death be registered? How far out at sea would you have to be for the death to be recorded as marine? Or does that relate to whether you were working, passenger, etc? I believe I have two men three men lost at sea, one in Falmouth Bay, one in the Irish Sea during the war (1940) and one before 1920 but no definite details. I can't seem to find them in the ordinary death indexes and I have had no luck with the war one even in the marine death indexes. The 1940 one was in the Fishing Fleet and is commemorated on a memorial in Milford Haven and one on Tower Hill Thanks Abigail

I don't know, but I imagine that the death would be registered wherever the ship came into port. nell

I have two deaths from wrecked fishing boats in the 1860's and 1870's.....neither had a death cert, because the bodies were not recovered. Both wrote wills and the widows had to go through various legal hoops to get probate. Merry

Thanks Merry, That might explain the earliest one. The war one I cannot find in the indexes, I have tried naval ratings but wondered if there were any other special indexes for the Fishing Fleet, as they were not really navy, merchant or royal I don't think. Problem for the first one if there was no body recovered is that his wife was in an institution (long term) and we are not sure if there was a will. Oh well more to chew over Many thanks Abigail

In the Irish Sea.... wouldn't have been registered in Ireland, would it? I don't think it would be very easy to find out, though! Kate.

Hi Abigail, With regards to the 1940 death, was it just the individual who was lost, or the whole crew? If the boat was lost, try googling its name. By doing that, I eventually found details of a merchant ship which sank in WW2, and found a report which told me exactly what had happened. Whilst it didn't name the crew, it stated how many bodies were recovered and where all the men were commemorated. The deaths of those men whose bodies were identified were registered in Scotland (the boat went down off Thurso) but several next of kin claimed the bodies and took them home for burial. My 17 yr old cousin was taken to his home town in Northumberland and buried in the local cemetery, so the information is actually in two different places. Jay

Abigail, Can I suggest you add names of men and other known details, and possibly someone with spare credits on 1837.com etc may find them. I believe they have Sea/Air deaths etc. When I next visit archives I could check probate index for you/ Any possibility that pre 1920 man was a DEMS Gunner in WW1? Records are often on CWGC site but you cannot always rely on name to be spelt as expected. DEMS stands for Defencely Equipped Merchant Ship. Basically they mounted one gun on Merchant Ships & Fishing boats with one trained to fire same. My father in law was mentioned in despatches during WW1 when as a DEMS gunner he caused a German submarine to crash dive to escape his fire. (I think the submarine commander did not want to 'loose' a torpedo on a Potato boat, and when he surfaced to use guns he got more than he expected, Such gunners are in effect Naval Personnel, Just a thought or two Regards Ray Whincup

I have just, today, been told that someone, probably the Cornwall OPC (but I'll check) has compiled a register of men lost from Vessels including fishing boats, in Cornwall. It may be a few days before I can pin down my informant so I will PM you And put the source on this thread - it may be useful for others. Olde Crone

Registers round the coast are filled with the burials of 'unknown man, found drowned' Reports of deaths depend usually on the body being found and there being a means of identification, though a man lost overboard from a ship that came safe to harbour should be recorded. For early maritime merchant seaman deaths try Trinity House Petitions, which are indexed on Origins. The original documents, held by the Society of Genealogists provide all sorts of useful details.

Thank you all! Janet, yes he was the skipper and went down with all hands, now thought to be a mine laid for the Germans. It was the St John Baptish, September 1940, but I cannot find any mention on 1837 Raymond. I have searched all the marine deaths. I shall keep grinding my nose away at this one - my husband says it could stand a bit more! Abigail

Thanks Olde Crone! That is very kind of you. I know that James McLean, born May 1880, crewed with his father as cook in the 1901 census, on the Ellen Eales, in harbour at Newlyn. I don't know much about his death but he was supposed to have been drowned in Falmouth Harbour. Abigail

Thanks Raymond, He was mentioned in despatches in WW1 too. I will have a look at the copies I have and try to glean some more information from them. Abigail