Genealogy Chat

Well looks like another brick wall for me see below...

Hi All My head hurts !! I am trying to sort out a couple of brothers, one of whom I believe to be my Gt Gt Grandfather. A fresh pair of eyes and some advice would be very gratefully received. Its quite complex so please bear with me. OK the people in question are Thomas and William Grubb, I first come across them on the 1861 Census, where they are shown as having the same year of birth but different places of birth. 1861 - Beckjay Shropshire --------------------------------------- William Grub 1818 Bambery, Buckinghamshire, Head Ann Grub 1823 Bambery, Buckinghamshire, Wife George Grub 1847 Bambery, Buckinghamshire, Son John Grub 1843 Bambery, Buckinghamshire, Son Joseph Grub 1857 Woluston, Buckinghamshire, Son > Thomas Grub 1851 Wolaston, Northamptonshire, Son > William Grub 1851 Bambery, Buckinghamshire, Son In 1871 the family move to Wales but Thomas disappears. And William is now claiming to be b.1856 and he is b. Northamptonshire (not bucks as previously stated) 1871 - Bedwellty Monmouthshire ----------------------------------------------- William Grub 1813 Padbury, Buckinghamshire, Head Ann Grub 1813 Winslow, Buckinghamshire, Wife > William Grub 1856 Woleson, Northamptonshire, Son Benjamin Grub 1862 Newnham, Worcestershire, Son Joseph Grub 1858 Winslow, Buckinghamshire, Son * Note no Thomas but William now down as born Northamptonshire In 1881 there is still no sign of Thomas, and William now saying b.1853 Winslow, Bucks 1881 - 7 Court James Street, Rushall, Staffordshire ------------------------------------------------------------ William Grub 1815 Winslow, Buckinghamshire, Head Ann Grub 1823 Winslow, Buckinghamshire, Wife > William Grub abt 1853 Winslow, Buckinghamshire, Son (Head) Mary Grub 1843 Brinmere, Glamorgan, Wife Thomas Grub 1881 Walsall, Staffordshire, Son William Grub 1877 Walsall, Staffordshire, Son Elizabeth Grub 1873 Brinmere, Glamorgan, Daughter James Grub 1871 Walsall, Staffordshire, Son * Again no Thomas but William now b. Winslow In 1891 William appears to have died, although I have no BMD to back this up, his wife and Children move back to Wales to live with Grandparents, Mary (William’s wife) is recorded as a widow. Thomas however reappears in Sheffield with his younger brother. 1891 - Brightside Bierlow, Yorkshire ---------------------------------------------- Grubb, Joseph 1858 Buckinghamshire, England Head Brightside Bierlow Grubb, Susannah 1860 Walsall, Staffordshire, England Wife Brightside Bierlow Grubb, Benjamin abt 1886 Walsall, Staffordshire, England Son Brightside Bierlow Grubb, Charles W abt 1889 Sheffield, Yorkshire, England Son Brightside Bierlow Grubb, Eliza abt 1883 Walsall, Staffordshire, England Daughter Brightside Bierlow >Grubb, Thomas abt 1856 Northamptonshire, England Lodger Brightside Bierlow * Thomas reappars living wih younger brother Joseph in Sheffield ** William's Wife Mary now living in Wales with parents as a Widow *** No records in 1901 I have managed to find the following BMD information BMD Records ---------------- Births Grub, William Thomas 1852 June Winslow Buckinghamshire Grubb, William 1871 September Marriages Crickhowell Breconshire to Mary Mates (should be Meats) I can find no records for Thomas. I have tried all the normal transcription errors, and searches for first name only etc. Do you think there is an error on the 1861 Census ? But then why does Northamptonshire keep appearing every time Thomas appears? Are William and Thomas one and the same ? It’s driving me mad. Where do I go from here ? TIA ... P

I thought it was odd that William and Thomas were both the same age, but born in different places. I had a look at the image. Thomas was only 6 in 1861. William is 10.

Not taken in the whole story yet, but wondered in you have 1851, where yet again children's ages don't fit with the next census!! 1851 (Tinkers End - nice address!!) Ann Grubb abt 1822 Winslow, Buckinghamshire, England Wife Winslow Buckinghamshire Fanny Grubb abt 1782 Padbury, Buckinghamshire, England Mother Winslow Buckinghamshire George Grubb abt 1850 Winslow, Buckinghamshire, England Son Winslow Buckinghamshire Hannah Grubb abt 1839 Winslow, Buckinghamshire, England Daughter Winslow Buckinghamshire John Grubb abt 1846 Winslow, Buckinghamshire, England Son Winslow Buckinghamshire William Grubb abt 1818 Padbury, Buckinghamshire, England Head Winslow Buckinghamshire Merry

Hi Tracy Thanks, I can see that now, so that confirms Thoams as b.1856 (ish). It always pays to look at the image :) I will have another go at BMD using 1855/6/7 as a firm date. P

Hi Merry I know there my rellies but I think I might be descended from a bunch of idiots :) They swap and change their info at each census. Mary Grubb had a habit of using the town of residence as the place of birth, to my benefit I must add, this pattern has helped me track them down. I have some good certs for William, but nothing concrete on Thomas, other than these 2 census entires. I have a possible match in the 1901 census a Thomas Grubb b.1856 Nantyglo, boarding with Harriet and Mary. Nantyglo is the area in which some of the family settled (Thomas' brother George for instance) and where I know live :) P

No help whatsoever but you can see Padbury from Winslow, its that close.

Thanks Jess Yes I visited both Padbury and Winslow recently, both really lovely places, and as you say within a stones throw of one another. But where next ?? I've tried Ancestry (census and trees), Ive tried BMD, Ive tried GR, Ive tried Family Search, I cant try Lost Cousins as I have no 1881 references for Thomas. What other sources are availble to help me solve this ??? Would a trip to the local record office help ? What would I look for electoral roll records ?? P

I don't know if you'd find this helpful but I encountered a bit of a strange census return myself once. I was looking at the actual transcription and had two children of the same age as siblings so I presumed they were twins. Strange thing was according to the BMD registers they were born in different quarters of the same year. I already have the certificate for one of them, but their mother's name didn't match that on the census. In the end I worked backwards a little and found that the mother died between her daughter's birth and the census. It turned out the sister of the mother had taken in the child and had had a daughter herself of a similar age. I know you've now found out that your two are not the same ago now, but could it be possible Thomas is the child of someone else in the family who they took in after their parents/mother died?

Thanks Sarah Yes this is something I have considered, although without some BMD evidence its going to be hard to prove one way or the other. I guess thats whats really frustrating the lack of a birth or death record! Thanks again ... P

I used the Hugh Wallis IGI batch page and found this: Batch Number: C148521 1. WILLIAM GRUBB - International Genealogical Index Gender: Male Christening: 15 JUN 1817 Padbury, Buckingham, England Father: WILLIAM GRUBB Mother: MARY 2. HANNAH GRUBB - International Genealogical Index Gender: Female Christening: 13 SEP 1812 Padbury, Buckingham, England 3. SALLY GRUBB - International Genealogical Index Gender: Female Christening: 24 DEC 1820 Padbury, Buckingham, England Christine

Thanks Christine