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Translation needed please

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Trish

Trish Report 24 Aug 2005 20:43

Trying to find one of my lot when I came across this - can anyone put it into English please? 'John le Devenishe, vintainer, mainprised by Henry Garlaund and Nicholas de Reymes, and he mainprises his vintaine, and has under him.........' Then we just go into lots of different names.

Maz (the Royal One) in the East End 9256

Maz (the Royal One) in the East End 9256 Report 24 Aug 2005 21:05

vintainer = commander of 20 men mainprise = surety hope you can make some sense of it now! Maz. XX

Merry

Merry Report 24 Aug 2005 21:14

Well.....I THINK a vintainer is something to do with the army, or King's forces - the vintainer would be a low ranking ''officer'' (?) who would be in charge of a group of men and be responsible for them not absconding/deserting - the word itself would appear to havea connection with wine, but I don't know how that comes into it quite! I looked up mainprise in my dictionary, but it is only recorded as a noun not a verb....... says: mainprise n. a writ directed to the sheriff commanding him to take sureties called mainpernors, for the prisioner's appearance, and to let him go at large; deliverance of a prisioner on security for his appearance on a day appointed So I'm pretty much none the wiser - just thought I would answer in case it inspired others to come up with something better!! Merry

Maz (the Royal One) in the East End 9256

Maz (the Royal One) in the East End 9256 Report 24 Aug 2005 21:20

Well I suppose to flesh it out a bit you could say something along the lines of .... 'John le Devenishe, commander of 20 men, financed by Henry Garlaund and Nicholas de Reymes, and he stands surety for his 20 men, and has under him ....' then the list of his soldiers. The best place to look up these type of words (and those from old wills) is your local library - they hopefully will have the full (about 23 volumes I think) Oxford English Dictionary, which should have them listed. I just got my definitions by a crafty bit of googling! Maz. XX ps just seen the bit Merry put about them not deserting - I suppose that is where the surety bit comes in?

Trish

Trish Report 24 Aug 2005 21:24

That's brill - thank you all. The closest my brain could get was the first 3 letters of vintainer........ booze lol. OK - now I have sensible answers I can move on - thank you.

Christine in Herts

Christine in Herts Report 24 Aug 2005 21:34

These words are derived from French, I think... vingtaine = 'about 20' main = hand prise = grasp mainprise means holding fast, I suppose. That name de Reymes - could it be de Reims in modern French? Christine