Genealogy Chat

What I know of John Thomas so far is: 1. He was married to Sarah who lived in 45 Old Street , Finsbury, London in 1851 with her son Robert. She was christened in St George’s in the East in 1795. 2. John Thomas was deceased by 1851 3. He had two sons – James Hector born 1825 (no children) and Robert Hugh born 1826 (from whom I am descended) and possibly a third, Charles. 4. He was an apprenticed organ builder in the Minories in London 5. At the birth of his sons he called himself a traveller 6. At the marriage of his sons in 1855 and 1846 he called himself an organ builder. I have recently come to believe that John Thomas may have been the grand son or son of Thomas Munro of Culcairn, second son of John Munro, son of Captain George Munro of Culcairn for the following reasons: • We have a ship’s captain’s log book authored by Sir Robert Thomas Munro who may have been the Thomas Munro of Mc Kenzie’s book(the historian), The Munro’s of Fowlis page 162. • Mc Kenzie states that Thomas Munro was drowned at sea, unmarried in 1778 during the lifetime of his father, however his father died in 1757 according to Mc Kenzie and so this cannot be true. • Thomas would have been at least thirty years old when he died if his father died in 1757 • He is mentioned in Sir Harry’s entail of 1776 as the son of John Munro of Culcairn (deceased) and he was in line after his cousin George, first son of Sir Harry, then his cousin Hugh , second son of Sir Harry, then his brother George , first son of John of Culcairn. He was , therefore, alive in 1776. • His brother Duncan , who was next in line after him, was the defendant in a court action brought against him by Sir Hugh Munro, for saying that Mary Seymour Munro was illegitimate. • His brother George is also said to have died unmarried by Mc Kenzie. • There is a recollection in my family of a letter from the war office of 1747 telling the family of the death of Sir George Munro of Culcairn on a borrowed horse in Fort William.

Thank you so much for the replies and the nudge. I hadn't seen them and so it was much appreciated. I went to the church yesterday and , of course, found nothing but I am now going to look on the websites. I think I have solved the mystery of why my family think they should be the Barons of Foulis and now I need to prove it. It all hinges on the idea I have that my John Thomas 1795 was the son of a sea captain, SIr RObert Thomas Munro, fourth in line for the title after his cousins Hugh and George and his brother George who died before him. I am hoping to find that JT'sbirth and or death was recorded at St Luke's.

just to complicate things, from 1842/3 there were 3 other churches in St Luke's besides St Luke's, but the whole area was still called St Luke's. Same applies in most of the old London parishes. Unlikely the new Victorian churches would have had burial grounds, no space, but they may have had crypts

nudge as I'm not sure Jenifer has read last few answers.

The parish church of St Lukes - St Luke Old Street was declared unsafe in the late 1950s and closed as a church. In recent years it has been restored and is used as the headquarters of the London Symphany Orchestra. There is a website about the building which includes archaeology reports and some information about the churchyard and crypt. The following comes from that site: 'Between July and December 2000 The Oxford Archaeological Unit undertook research work at St Luke's church on behalf of ABL Cultural Consulting Limited. This comprised recording of funerary architecture, the crypt structure along with exhumation of all burials in the northern and southern churchyards as well as clearance of all the burials in the crypt. A total of 1052 burials have been recorded and removed. Of that number 336 individuals were named and documentary research will be carried out on these individuals during the post-excavation phase.' Burials were apparently taking place in the crypt until at least the 1850s and the report includes a list of names taken from the burial register. If you want to search the burial registers they are held at the London Metropolitan Archives which are not that far from Old Street. Apparently burials ceased in the churchyard and crypt in 1853, in line with most London churches. Here's the website address (remove the *): http://lso.nvisage.uk.*com/lsostlukes/history/

The large cemeteries that ring London are there because there simply wasn't space in London's old churchyards for all the bodies. Trying to work out which parish someone may have died in, and the entirely different question of where they might have been buried, is a nightmare. Do you have any additional information on John? Might he have been rich enough to leave a will? Poor enough to be in the workhouse? Did he have an occupation that might have paid a pension? You may need to think laterally of the other sorts of records that he might have appeared in. Familysearch concentrates on baptisms and marriages. There are burials on the National Burial Index - NBI cd and on familyhistoryonline, but I think virtually none for London. That is a task so large that nobody wants to tackle it.

Check the FHS for the area, they should have a website. See if they have a MI for that graveyard available. You can often buy these for a few pound which can be more convenient if you don't live near the area. Have a look on ROOTSWEB and other sites to see if there are any mailing lists or message boards for the area. These vary a lot but often someone will help you though I have not found the London lists as helpful as other parts of the country. Martin

thanks for all the advice - most helpful!

Looked on Ancestry and there are quite a few, so it would be a stab in the dark really. AND they don't start until 1837, so if he died before that he isn't on. Also looked on FamilySearch and no luck there I'm afraid. I have done 'trolls' around graveyards and on occasion found what I have wanted so it is always worth a look. There must be a parish register of who is buried and where abouts in the burial ground. The local record office or library would know where to find it. Good hunting Gloria

Unless he was stinking rich, there probably won't be a gravestone with lots of info on it. Even if there was originally, it may have been moved/damaged/covered in filth/built over or unreadable. The info on the stone may even be incorrect, I have instances of that in my family. Yur best bet is to get to the records office - probably in this case the London Metropolitan Archives. I'd ring first and check. They should have the parish burial registers which will have details and they might have a plan of the churchyard showing where the grave is. Unless the graveyard you want to check is very small, it can be a total nightmare. Even with a grave number it isn't always possible to locate a grave - I know this from disappointing experience! It's also possible that the graveyard has been moved/built over. For later burials, there are sometimes searchable databases on the relevant council website. nell

Hi Jennifer, I have been trying to find the burial place of an ancestor for 2 years without success, but I have found that for early burials, many of the records are held by the local library or records office.Try contacting the church, and they will tell you who holds their burial records etc. I usually find them very helpful. Good luck Sheila.

I am trying to find an ancestor who died any time between 1827 and 1851 , probably in London, most likely in ST Luke's. Can I just go and look in the church yard at all the head stones or is there an easier way? I have tried looking at the 1837 online but that excludes the early years and even if I find a John Munro I am not assured that it is the one I want. The grave stone may mention his children and wife which will be more accurate. ANy ideas?