Genealogy Chat

I have found that my great-great-grandmother, Frances Hill, was born in Shorne, Kent in 1839. Having checked the excellent CityArk website I found a record of the baptism of Frances Hill, the daugher of Fanny Hill, on 7th August, 1839 at the parish church in Shorne. Since no father was entered I assume she was illegitimate. However, her marriage certificate dated 18th May 1863 in the parish church at Milton-by-Gravesend shows her father as Goldsmith Hill, a wine merchant. I can find no record, so far, of any reference to a Goldsmith Hill in FreeBMD or any census. Has anyone any ideas on this mystery ? Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated. Steve

Since there is no name in the baptism register, I would think she was illegitimate and invented a father for the marriage certificate, though Goldsmith Hill does sound rather fanciful. You could try to find her birth cert - I couldn't find it on Ancestry civil reg, but the local Kent register office might have it. You could also have a look on the historical directories site http://www.historicaldirectories.org/hd/index.asp to see if you can find this enigmatic man listed as a wine merchant. If they don't cover the area/time you want, then I am sure that somewhere in Kent there will be an archive/local history centre that does have directories. nell

Just to make the waters murkier, I found these on Ancestry civil reg: Name: Hill, Frederick Goldsmith Record Type: Deaths Age at death: 3 Quarter: September Year: 1867 District: Lambeth Volume: 1d Page: 244 Name: HILL, George Goldsmith Record Type: Births Quarter: September Year: 1872 District: Wandsworth County: London Surrey Volume: 1d Page: 526 Name: Hill, John Goldsmith Record Type: Marriages Quarter: September Year: 1896 District: Paddington County: London Volume: 1a Page: 3 [bride is one of these ladies: Casey, Marion Louise Goldsmith, Frances - that intriguing Goldsmith again! Oliver, Mary Sarah Summers, Ellen Ann ] nell

Many thanks for the advice - I have checked the Historical Directories site but did not find a wine merchant who rejoiced in the name of Goldsmith Hill. I suspect you could be right about his name being an invention, perhaps by Frances Hill's mother. However I will be interested to search the 1841/51 census records for Kent when they become available online, this will show whether there was a father present at that time. Steve

stephen, i will look on 1837online for you it may take a while my computer is sulking again MOE

stephen, there are no births for Shorne in Kent, but because i don't know the areas surrounding it i will just put the lot on.(you must bear in mind if mum was unmarried she may have had the baby elsewhere)I have searched back to jan quart 1838,here goes; Apr/may/jun 1839(none) Jan/Feb/Mar 1839 Fanny Hill edmonton III(can't do roman) page 114 Frances hill Lambeth IV page 276 Jul/Aug/Sep 1839 Frances Hill Stowbridge XVIII page 421 frances Hill mansfield XV page 479 Oct/Nov/Dec 1838 Fanny Louisa Hill Stroud vol 11 page 244(back to english numbers now) Frances Hill St Lukes vol 2 page 249 Frances Mary Hill Clifton vol 11 page 244 None on Jul/Aug/sep 1838 Apr/MayJun 1838 frances Hill Newbury vol 6 page 189 frances Mary Hill Clifton vol 11 page 244 Fanny Hill Huntingdon vol 14 page 181 Frances Hill St Thomas vol 10 page 200 Frances Hill tynemouth vol 25 page 384 Frances Elizabeth Hill Billesdon vol 15 page 54 Frances Emily Hill Portsea I, Vol 7 page 109 Frances Maria Hill Sleaford vol14 page 487 Jan/feb/mar 1838 Frances Hill Farnham vol 4 page 92 Frances Amelia Hill St Geo in the east vol 2 page 117 Frances Mary Hill Mansfield vol 15 page 500 Hope you find her amongst this lot.....MOE!

Just to add to the confusion have you actually found the birth cert as in one of the baptisms I found the vicar 'forgot' to enter the name of the parents. Also on another one of this couple's children he put in the mother's maiden name even though she was married to the father at the time. Never assume anything! Pippa

Many thanks for the info. Shorne came within the North Aylesford registration district, but I am aware that 1839 was in the early years of civil registration which did not become compulsory until much later, so perhaps the birth was not registered. I also found the birth in 1841 and burial in 1842 of Edward Mose Hill to Frances Hill (again no father) in the parish register of Shorne and the death at least was registered (checked FreeBMD). I have also found Fanny Hill aged 22 in the 1861 census working as a general servant at Rede Court Farm, The Crutches, Frindsbury, which is not far from Shorne. I will be interested to see if I can find her on the 1851 census when that is available online. Steve