Genealogy Chat

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My 2nd Great grandmother, Frances Richards born in Pembroke. I have her marriage certificate dated December 1901 which states she was 27 when she married and her father is named as John Richards and John Richards is also a witness on the certificate. She also appears on 1901 census before she married living in Cardiff, aged 26 So using 1881 census, there are two Frances Richards born in Pembroke. One slightly too old, and one slightly too young. The older Frances is living with her grandparents, the younger Frances is with her family and her father is called John Richards which would fit in with certificate. So feeling very rich I sent for the two birth certificates, Frances the younger's says she was born 6 February 1876, which would make her 25 when she married and not 27. But her father is confirmed as John Frances the elder was born 11 April 1873 which would make her 28 when she married and not 27. Her birth certificate though shows she is illegitimate and her father in not named. Her mother being Elizabeth Richards. I'm inclined to go for the younger Frances as the father is correct, but the age is niggling me. Could it be the elder Frances made up a father on her marriage certificate so the space wasn't blank, and just used John Richards. (but he does sign the certificate as well) Any thoughts appreciated. Sarah

John could be a brother (named after his father) and it is possible she lied, but in this case it doesn't seem necessary (as the legal age was 21 anyway) or another suggestion is she was illegimate and John (whatever relation he was) said he was her father in order to save any embrassment

I've just been on Freebmd. If my Frances (which ever one she may be) married James Steele, who did the other Frances marry???? I found marriage of Frances Richards and William Picton in Pembroke. 1901 census shows Frances and William Picton, Frances being born in Rhoscrowther, Pembroke which was where Frances the elder (illegitimate one) was born. And the age fits her as well. So........ looks like it could be Frances the younger one Sarah

Perhaps it might be clearer if you can find BOTH Frances on the 1901 and work out which is who in 1881/on the marriage cert from there. nell

Thanks Nell The older Frances is not on 1901 as Frances Richards. Think she's Frances Picton by then Sarah

Have you looked on the 1891 census for the two, and have you found the other Frances on the 1901 census? How old was the groom? Some people are funny about age gaps or having the brider older than the groom. Of course, it could be that the girl genuinely thought she was 27, if she had never seen her birth certificate and her parents made a mistake.

1891 census shows older Frances still living with her grandfather in Rhoscrowther, Pembroke. I couldn't find younger Frances for ages, but think she's been mistranscribed as 'Hanny Richards', Hanny I think should be Fanny, nickname for Frances. She's living as a servant in Pembroke. This particular Frances has an older sister who in 1891 is working as a servant in Cardiff, so maybe that's how Frances ended up going from Pembroke to Cardiff, she followed her older sister down. When she married, the Groom was a lot older. She was 27 he was 42 Sarah

Her grandfather wasn't a John, was he? It sounds like she did not live with her mother at all, so if she were to give a father's name, it would be natural to name the man who brought her up - her grandfather.

Hi Twinkle No her grandfather was George Richards. None of the uncles she lived with were called John either Thanks Sarah