Genealogy Chat

See below Rita

Hi - In the 1881 census for Timothy Collins/Elizabeth Collins. 3 childrenof the household have the surname Richards. On the marriage certificate of Timothy and Elizabeth in 1878, Elizabeth describes herself as 'Spinster'. Now, if these children were the illegitimate issue of Elizabeth then they have their mother's maiden name. Therefore they would be the step-children of Timothy Collins as described in the census. However, if Elizabeth was the AUNT of these children - children of her brother (or possibly the illegitimate children of a sister) then surely they would be described as step-nephews/niece. Opinions please. Rita

what relationship does the census say the children are to Timothy? was their mothers maiden name Richards?

hi Rita As you can see essay not going too well!! In 1871 jane richards with parents george and eliza richards, living in westminster, can't see walter though Christine

Back then relationships seemed a bit mixed up. I have 2 people listed as father in law and sister in law when in fact they are step father and step sister. Also, when they filled in the forms, they may have left off the step bit. To be certain, you will need one of the childrens birth certificates to find out parentage.

Relationships should be to the head of household, not to the wife (though this is not always adhered to). Was the husband described as a widower when he married? UPDATE - brain out of gear. The children should be children of Elizabeth, not Timothy, hence the step. While the term 'in law' today carries a specific meaning as in spouse's natural family, in the 1800s it was used as commonly as 'step'. When gggranny got wed, she had two small children and a large bump. The eldest child stayed with the grandparents, while the next was described as son-in-law, with her surname, on the subsequent census. When the family moved, he was quietly absorbed into the family with her husband's surname.

188 for clarification Elizabeth Collins abt 1842 Lambeth, Surrey, England Wife 58 West Lane, Rotherhithe, London, England John Collins abt 1878 Rotherhithe, Surrey, England Son 58 West Lane, Rotherhithe, London, England Timothy Collins abt 1833 Hadwell, Middlesex, England Head 58 West Lane, Rotherhithe, London, England Edward Richards abt 1872 Blackfriars, Surrey, England Step Son 58 West Lane, Rotherhithe, London, England Jane Richards abt 1865 Westminster, Surrey, England Step Daughter 58 West Lane, Rotherhithe, London, England Walter Richards abt 1869 Lambeth, Surrey, England Step Son 58 West Lane, Rotherhithe, London, England ____________________________________________- can you find Elizabeth in 1871 with the children?

Hi all 1871 for Richards family george Richards head 1830 born Devon eliza richards wife 1837 born Lambeth eliza richards daughter 1859 lambeth jane richards daughter 1863 westmisnter jessie richards daughter 1866 westminster ada richards daughter 1868 westminter Christine

ARE THESE WORTH CONSIDERING? Eliza Richards abt 1834 Camberwell, Surrey, England Wife Camberwell London Frances Richards abt 1870 Camberwell, Surrey, England Daughter Camberwell London Sarah Richards abt 1860 Camberwell, Surrey, England Daughter Camberwell London Thomas Richards abt 1823 Clapham, Surrey, England Head Camberwell London Thomas Richards abt 1855 Camberwell, Surrey, England Son Camberwell London Walter Richards abt 1868 Camberwell, Surrey, England Son Camberwell London

Hi all - Jess - The children are described as step-sons and step-dau. of Timothy. Richards was her father's name according to the marr. cert. therefore Eliz.'s maiden name. ----------------------------------------------------------- Hi Christine - Sorry about the essay, never mind - soldier on. I have details of the 1871 but don't think this right family as Elizabeth described herself as a 'Spinster' in 1878 marr. to Timothy. ---------------------------------------------------------- Carol - Can't get hold of birth certificates. Marriage certs. of two of the children state that their father was a Walter John Richards. Can find no trace of any Walter John Richards. I sent off recently for birth cert. for likely contender for the 3rd child. I gave Elizabeth and John as ref. checks. Reply was that Elizabeth and Walter were not the parents. It rather begs the question as to whether Walter was the father but Elizabeth was not the mother. ----------------------------------------------------------- Hi Jess - I have discounted this simply because there is an apparent age discrepancy of the Elizabeth born 1834 in Camberwell and Elizabeth born ca 1842 acording to age 39 in 1881 cen. ----------------------------------------------------------- My head is in a spin. A logical explation is that the children were those of Elizabeth's brother so they kept the name Richards, and Eliz. was the aunt. Perhaps it was easier to call the child step-sons/dau. as opposed to step-niece/nephews. If anyone can track down any details of a Walter John Richards living with whoever on any census I should be ecstatic. Many thanks for all your suggestions. Rita