Genealogy Chat

Couldn't it be that Obadiah had a sister who married a Smith, and Agnes was the sister's daughter? Kate.

Wondering Where Agnes fits in? Obviously a neice , (as the image says,) not nephew, and her birth place is mistranscibed too- it clearly (well, resonably clearly ) says Ipswich. Whilst the relationship SHOULD be in relation to the head, to me it points a bit to his wife being nee Smith Jess

Thanx for looking but I dont think that is THE eleanor as she was born in witham 1861 but i have now found her living in LOndon in 1901!!! thanks for your help, much appreciated

Hi Kate, yes i did find emilys marriage they married in 1856, i have not got a copy of the second marriage cert but think that i will order one now... to see if he was a widower. I am going to the London FRC on Saturday so I will be able to also look for Emilys 'death' at least it is a short time span to search through!

As for what happened to Eleanor, could this be her? Name Year Quarter Record Type District County Norman, Eleanor Florence 1859 September Births Sudbury Essex Suffolk Norman, Eleanor Florence 1864 December Deaths Sudbury Essex Suffolk Goodnight! Kate.

Pat That is a very good idea..got to admit that i did not think of that ..Doh!

Have you actually found Obadiah's marriage to Emily? Or could it be that he was just living with her and not married to her and so it was legal for him to marry Mary Ann? Do you actually have the marriage cert between Obadiah and Mary Ann, and if so, what is his marital status given as? Kate.

If you purchase the 'second' marriage cert, It should say if he was a widow. Pat

Eleanor Norman abt 1861 Witham, Essex, England Daughter Witham Essex Emily Norman abt 1835 Ipswich, Suffolk, England Wife Witham Essex Obadiah Norman abt 1836 Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England Head Witham Essex Agatha Smith abt 1853 Spaldwick, Suffolk, England Nephew Witham Essex

Hi Nell No I cant find her on any later census or a later marriage, they had a daughter called eleanor but can not find her either! THe wifes name is Emily Norman husband is obadiah norman, i found the whole family in witham essex in 1861 and then found that he moved to birmingham and married Mary ann Hardy in 1867, on the 1871 census they have children but eleanor is not there and she would have been aged 10, so am confused as to whwere eleanor is also... all this is so confusing!!!

Divorce was only legal in 1858 (before then you needed an act of parliament!) and it was only for the very rich, who didn't mind the scandal. I think the most likely scenario is that a) 1st wife died, but you can't find the record - have you looked on 1837online? b) husband committed bigamy. This was apparently a lot more common than we might think, as divorce was virtually impossible for ordinary folk. Can you find the first wife on a later census - or even a 'marriage' for her? What's her name, other people might be able to help. nell

I found an ancestor married in 1861, and then i found her husband remarried in 1867, but i can not find a death for his first wife...was there any such thing as divorce in those days? or could he have been a bigamist???!!!