Genealogy Chat

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Why can't what be easy? to post a question ;O) Sheila

I know that my ggg grandfather, William Byers, a hatter, died before one of his son's marriage in 1857 (George James Byers). I have found his wife on the 1841, along with a couple of his children (my gg grandfather, George born c1836 is not there - but is with them on the 1851). He is not there. His wife is living next door to her future 'husband' (even though I have found no marriage to prove this). They have a child in 1843, so I guess that William died between 1835 (baptism record for George) and 1843. I have looked on the civil registration for a death - nothing. So I assume he died between 1835 and 1837. SKS looked up burials in Lambeth for me between these years and they found one William Byers - William Archer Byers, aged 31, at Cottage Place, July 1835. BUT the baptism I have for George wasn't until August (it gives parents as William and Ann). The address is also given as Cottage Place. Was it possible for a child to be baptised as son of William and Ann even though William had been buried the month before? I thought it would be 'son of widow Byers' or something a long those lines. Do you think this is my William?? I have found a birth for William Archer Byers in Southwark, parents Belfour and Janet - unfortunately there's nothing more on this couple. His birth year was 1804. But the marriage I have for 1824 does not give this middle name nor does it say they required consent from their parents cos William at least would have been underage. Help please!! Chloe

It could be your William. The baptism registers seem to vary in content for total truth. We have a child baptised at age 15, almost 6 years after his father's death but he is still recorded as of 'William and Charlotte'.

Hi Chloe My 3xgrandfather was born 8th Feb 1859 and baptised 20 Mar 1859. His baptism cert says Son of George and Sarah Bibb, George listed as a Tailor No mention of the fact that George had been buried 4 months earlier so yes, very possible that its yours. Lou

The person who looked up the death for me did not mention that there was an occupation to go along with it, I will ask her again, but I don’t think there was otherwise she would have written it down. William was a hatter. George, the son, was a pianoforte maker/key maker – something that he and his brothers all did, albeit one who was a shipwright. I can’t find a death for the George Daniel Byers born 1835, even though the middle name that my George gives is ‘James’ on his marriage and death certificates. So I assume that this George Daniel is my George James. It is annoying that I can’t find him on the 1841. He is with his mother, stepfather, brother and half siblings on the 1851 (I have one of his half siblings birth certificates, and even though it doesn’t mention the mother’s married name BEFORE she her second marriage, she has the same maiden name as the lady from the 1824 marriage). The witnesses on the marriage entry in 1824 – are Mary Ann Cope (maiden name of bride so possible relation) and ?? It’s definitely not Byers, but it’s not entirely clear as to what it is. So it is possible that this William Archer BYERS, born 1804 is my chap (his wife, Ann, gives her year of birth as 1803, so close in age) – just having no luck tracing his parents Belfour and Janet now! It’s just that the middle name was not recorded – but it was recorded on the baptism and death – why not the marriage?? Sorry for the time in replying – am at work – and shouldn’t really be on the net! Ooops! Thanks for all your suggestions – any more are also appreciated! I need all the help I can get! I bet this line will stop at Belfour now!! Chloe x

Sorry, Sarah. I forgot to mention that too. George is consistent with his place of birth. When I found them on the 1841, they are living in Orsett Street, Lambeth. I got this address from George’s half sister’s birth cert in 1843. No Byers are living at Cottage Place though. In 1851 they are in Bolwell Street, Lambeth (address got from George’s marriage cert in 1857). I believe I have the right family on the 1841 as George’s brother, William, is on the 1841 and 1851, the age is consistent. It’s just these things keep on cropping up. There are some Byers in London that were hatters (moved down from Westmorland), and I had begun to think that my William belonged to them, perhaps he does, it’s just a different generation, but I can’t find anything on Belfour Byers. I can’t find Ann Cope (woman that William married and was George’s mother). She SAYS on the 1841 that she was not born in Surrey, but on the other censuses she gives her place of birth as Lambeth…. But she wasn’t born there! I’ve checked! She died between 1871 and 1881 – I do have two possible references written down, just not bought the certs yet due to lack of money! I just hate this family. For a few years I was tracing back the wrong ancestor. Ann Byers was my g grandmother, and all we had to go on for where she came from what my ‘Uncle Ray’ (who is related to me twice and was her nephew). He was from Sunderland, so we looked up there. Took the Ann Byers that was born in Newcastle in 1876 – never found her on a census with her family, but still took this as the right one and went further back – only to realise (when I became a bit more wiser, and bought her marriage cert) that the father’s name was different. I found her eventually and she was born in Islington in 1874! The one in Newcastle had died in infancy. So these Byers are doing my head in! No one knows anything about them at all and they seem to disappear a lot. As for the pianoforte maker in Lambeth – might be a connection – the Robert David Byers doesn’t ring any bells. I will have to investigate that some more. Thanks again, like I said before, any more suggestions (if there are any) are really appreciated (not demeaning the help you have given me so far at all, Sarah). Thanks, you are a star. Chloe x

Wow Sarah! I only came up with 4 entries on the IGI - if this William is mine... do you think he is?..... then yay I have some Scottish in me! All I need is some Welsh and I'm from all four countries (plus some outside the Isles!).

Thanks for that. I don't know of any siblings that she had! Cope being such a common name, it's had to say which is which, and she married before the censuses - grrrr. But thanks. I do mean that! What about this William Archer Byers, does anyone think that it is my William Byers?? Chloe

Thanks Sarah. I would love the item - do you want me to message my email address to you? As for the burial entry, you're right. I'll ask the lady where she got it from etc. She was lovely to look it up in the first place so I hope I'm not pushing my luck. Chloe x