Genealogy Chat

Well, I've come to the conclusion that my second great grandmother never really existed and is just a figment of my imagination. Two years I've spent looking, and I really don't know where else to look. I have my great grandmothers birth certificate, Clara Eveline Roberts. She was born in 1897, Waterloo Road, Lambeth/Southwark area. Her parents are stated as Hester Hannah Jones and William Roberts. My grandfather told me before he died that part of the family originally came from Shrewsbury. I also have Clara's marriage certificate which states her father is William Roberts (private detective) William Roberts, too little information and such a common name. Hester Hannah Jones must be easier (famous last words). 1901 census shows Clara Roberts as a 'visitor' at Bridge Street, Southwark. No mother with her, no father with her. I've checked census' for 1861, 1871, 1881, 1891, 1901 for all combinations for Hester Hannah Jones, Hester Hannah Roberts (her married name). ZILCH!!!!. I then put in the name of Clara's younger sister into the 1901 census, and found her again as a 'visitor' at Bridge Road, Southwark but this time her mother is with her. Mother is down as Essie or Ettie Roberts (must be a nickname for Hester), age 27 (1874) born in Shrewsbury. I've gone back to all the census using the nicknames Essie or Ettie Jones and Roberts again ZILCH!!!! I've been on 1837 online and using the birth year of 1874 gone back 6 years either side looking for Hester and Esther Jones in Shrewsbury. I found one possible in Atcham, sent for birth certificate, got her parents details, found them on census but no Hester Jones with them. A check on the death records for the same period shows a Hester Jones age 0 in 1874. Sent for that death certificate and all the details match the birth certificate I have, so that can't be my Hester. I've taken the birth date of Clara's younger sister and working backwards have checked 1837 online for a marriage of Hester Hannah Jones and William Roberts - NOTHING, I went back about 10+ plus years. The people who they were 'visiting' seem to have no family connection, and don't come from Shrewsbury or London. I've traced them back through the census, and there doesn't seem to be any connection William Roberts I have no age or birthplace for. Everything I know about Hester Hannah Jones is above. Where do I go next?????? Why oh why, on the date of the 1901 census did she pack one daughter off as a 'visitor' and then choose to go 'visiting' herself with her baby daughter'????????????????????? Sarah with a head that's about to go BANG. If anyone could give me any tips as to where to turn next I would be very grateful.

Ooh Sarah, that is a thorny one - sorry don't have any immediate suggestions but will have a think about it for you. Good luck!! Trudy

Sarah GR always scrambles the first message in a new thread, so I have taken the liberty of rearranging your info> Clara Eveline Roberts.born 1897, Waterloo Road, Lambeth/Southwark area. Parents Hester Hannah Jones and William Roberts. [info from Clara's birth cert] Clara's marriage certificate which states her father is William Roberts (private detective) 1901 census shows Clara Roberts as a 'visitor' at Bridge Street, Southwark without her parents. Clara's younger sister is on 1901 census, again as a 'visitor' at Bridge Road, Southwark but this time her mother is with her. Mother is down as Essie or Ettie Roberts (must be a nickname for Hester), age 27 (1874) born in Shrewsbury. You can't find Essie/Ettie/Hester on any other census. You have found a possible birth in Atcham, sent for birth certificate, got her parents details, found them on census but no Hester Jones with them. A check on the death records for the same period shows a Hester Jones age 0 in 1874. Sent for that death certificate and all the details match the birth certificate so that can't be your Hester. You've taken the birth date of Clara's younger sister and working backwards have checked 1837 online for a marriage of Hester Hannah Jones and William Roberts - NOTHING, I went back about 10+ plus years. The people who they were 'visiting' seem to have no family connection, and don't come from Shrewsbury or London. You've traced them back through the census, and there doesn't seem to be any connection William Roberts I have no age or birthplace for. hy oh why, on the date of the 1901 census did she pack one daughter off as a 'visitor' and then choose to go 'visiting' herself with her baby daughter'????????????????????? ********************************************** My thoughts - censuses are notorious for recording people incorrectly/mistranscribing them. Since you haven't found Hester & William Roberts' marriage, you can't know whether the people she and her daughters are staying with in 1901 are relatives or not. What has happened to William? Is Essie/Ettie down as married or widowed? nell

Hi both. I did use paragraphs when I typed the message out, and wondered where they had disappeared to when I posted the message lol. Ettie/Essie is down as being married. I did trawl through what I could of 1901 for William Roberts in Lambeth/Southwark area with no wife with him at that time. Nothing again!!!! I just assumed that the people they were visiting weren't related, as the relationship to head of household just said 'visitor' and not a relative of any description. Ho Hummmm

Sarah NEVER assume anything in this game! On the 1901 I have a 'visitor' who is actually the sister of the wife of head of household. Maybe he/the enumerator could/should have written sister-in-law, but didn't. Perhaps they wanted to make it clear she didn't live there on a permanent basis. She was also mistrancribed as Louisa Curvey, when she was in fact Fanny Louisa Purvey, so you can see how census info isn't always strictly accurate! nell

Another thought - William's name is common, but his occupation isn't. Perhaps he is elsewhere on the census doing some detective work? Would he be in a street directory of the time - google historical directories to find a link to some London ones. You have to go through page by page so its a bit tedious, but you might get an address which you can then search the census on. nell

Thanks Nell, I'll try that. I have the address where they lived a few years before 1901 census. How would I use that address to see if William is still living there? Sarah

Sarah I don't know if this is going to be your Hester, but on the 1881 census there is a Esther Harriet Jones, born about 1871 in Shrewsbury, living with her parents John and Sarah Jones and a whole gang of brothers, sisters and assorted hangers-on in Norbold, Meole Brace, Shropshire. (RG11/2654, Folio 98, page 5) She appears again in 1891, this time she is Hester Harriet Jones, still at home with parents, still living in the same place, still born about 1871. Some of the brothers and sisters have moved out, but now living with them is a sister-in-law (so presumably the mother's sister) called Margaret Roberts. (RG12/2113, Folio 54, page 2) As you only seem to have Hester's age from the 1901 census, in a household where she was a visitor, it may not be spot on. Now I know that Jones and Roberts are pretty common names in Shropshire, being so close to Wales (have some Shropshire Jones's myself), but perhaps it would be worth tracking Sarah back. If she was originally a Roberts, and this is the right family, maybe your Hester and William were related? Good luck Tina

There could be something in that. Family rumour is that Clara Roberts, Hester Hannah Jones' daughter, married her first cousin. His surname was Morris, but somewhere along the line he had to be connected with the Roberts family. He was in Shrewsbury and went to stay with his Roberts cousins in London and married one of them. So I've already come across some inter-marrying within the Roberts family. I'll definately check that out Tina Thanks very much Sarah

Sarah If Clara married her first cousin, it won't necessarily be on the Roberts' side. If the surname is Morris then it could be one of Hester's or William's nephews by one of their sisters. You have yet to find their siblings. If you have an idea of when Clara married, it might be worth looking for the marriage cert and seeing who her husband's parents were and then trying to work your way back to connect one of them with Clara's mother or father. nell

Hi Nell Luckily I've done that already. Using Clara's marriage certificate, I managed to get her husband's birth certificate. His father was Henry Morris and his mother Lillie Harriet Roberts. Thanks for suggesting it though Sarah

Well try tracing Lily Harriet Roberts pre-1901 on a census and you might find her brother! nell