General Chat

Did children born out of wedlock have their mothers surnames? the reason i ask is while doing my family tree i found on the 1901 census one of my relatives Amelia Saunders (Became Newman when she married John). On the census theres a Edward J Saunders listed as son, mother Amelia father John. Am i right in thinking that this is the case?

Hi Debbie,
Yes, offspring usually took the mother's name in these cases. Best confirmation would be if you can find a baptismal record for the child: the mother's name would be there and occupation 'single woman' or similar.
Janice

The enumerator for that particular census record seems to have had trouble with relationships.
eg. He has shown Gabriel as 'brother' but his name would suggest he was Amelia's brother, not her husbands.

Gwyn

I have a woman who was married, left him and set up home with a new man. Their children were given his name. They didn't marry (she didn't divorce) but she seemed to change her story from being his wife, to his mistress, and back to being his wife. On the childrens birth certificates she said she was mrs Coote but she wasn't. On the census she used her married name or said she was the mistress of the man she lived with.

So the answer I am getting at, is children born out of wedlock could be given the name of either parent.

Debbie,

My father had his mothers maiden name (Bunker) until he was three ,then his mother married ( Johnson) and he was named after him once they got married .
No adoption or names by deed poll where ever done.

Although he used his mothers new married name all his life, he still remained Bunker in what he was born with in. birth.

He did when he married my mother go to a solicitor and have a piece of paper pinned to his birth cert, to declare he wishes to be known as (Johnson)
Dont know if that helps.

Marilyn

Your right Gwyn, Gabriel is Amelias brother. I have noticed on the census' that some are done alot better than others!

Debbie , I`ve just been doing some census transcribing for FREECEN , some are very hard to read.Tonight I`ve found twins called PERCY AND PINDER !!

My g gran (on mum's side) had 9 children between 1904 and 1921 out of wedlock - she is on every birth certificate as Mrs - and all the children have their father's surname - obviously easy to do!
The 10th and last was the only legitimate child - born after
g grandad's wife had died and they married - a year before their eldest child (my gran) married!!!

My dad (born 1926) was born out of wedlock - registered under his mum's maiden name, but used the name of his father - who paid for his upkeep.
When his father was killed in WWII (came out of retirement) gran remarried (dad was 14) dad was officially adopted by her new husband and used his name.
He has two registrations - the original and a handwritten note at the end of the page (alphabetically), with a reference to his original registration.

Things are much different now but in the past any child born out of wedlock was really considered to "belong" to its mother but there are cases of baptisms in parish registers which record things like John Brown son of Mary Brown and John Smith. I have also seen records which say things like "Reputedly son of John Smith"

There are occasions when the child is given the father's surname as a first name. On my husband's tree there is an illegitimate boy given his father's surname as a first. In that case his mother died when he was a baby and he ended up being cared for by his father and a wife the father married soon after. That was a sad case but he must have been loved because he named his own daughter later after the stepmother who brought him up.

Legally any child born to a married woman was presumed to belong to her husband unless he didn't accept the child.

Names have only really become fixed quite recently. In the past people tended to change names if it suited them. It certainly wasn't necessary to have a name fixed until it became compulsory to have civil registration and even then seems to have been rather lax. I know of at least one person on my tree using his stepfather's name when he married rather than his birth name but it would never have been formally changed.

Sue

The 'wandering' surname stil happens now!
My grand daughter has a double - barreled name - her father's name followed by my daughter's surname (they weren't married).
My daughter is soon to be married to a man other than my grand daughter's father - and he wants to adopt her .
Grand daughter could end up with a triple barrelled surname - and could choose to use all three, any one, or combination of two that she wants!
(as long as she's not out to deceive!)

Just to throw another spanner.... LOL

Some of the B.B. (Base born or illegitimate) I have been transcribing for a new database appear to have the fathers surname name as the middle name. It might not be the case in all parishes or records.
e.g. John Plaskowsky Smith baptised 12/2/1679 b.b.s.o Jane Smith
When else where there is a record of a Plaskowsky as having a child baptised 21/1/1679.
Names have been changed to protect the guilty LOL
Its well worth having a look at middle names as well, if they are listed.

Stu in Hastings.
n.b.
b.b. can also mean bastardly begotten meaning illegitimate usually pre 1750's

In my ancestry in the 1700's, I have a John Baggott- Reid. He chose to use the name Baggott. So for 'x' number of generations - up until the present the family have been known as Baggotts.
I also have a Beecroft alias Buckingham of a similar period, who had a brother with the same alias. Looking at the parish records, they used their name(s) willy-nilly , depending on who/when they married!!

Basically - when it came to surnames - they did what they wanted!