General Chat

Fantastic... everything is so fantastic it seems these days.

Fantastic sale
Fantastic offer
Fantastic as in how someone looks
Fantastic flavour etc, etc

"Glad it's not only me...shows that our schooling really taught us grammar!!"

Evidently not.

Language evolves and to a certain extent I can cope with the change of meaning of words like 'wicked' and 'sick' etc and the misuse or overuse of words, we all do it, it's what makes us individuals. Where would writers be without having characters who have their own 'voice', those quirks that tell you it is a particular character speaking even without the 'Simon said....'.

But I don't think I will ever cope with "should of". Or, and this is creeping so fast into daily speech that I have even fallen into it myself once or twice. " These ones" :-0

PS I have noticed I too often use the word " well" on here, as in "Well I think you should look at freebmd"...it's annoying, sorry ;-)

Sir John Cheke (16 June 1514 – 13 September 1557) was an English classical scholar who wrote: -

‘I am of this opinion that our own tung should be written cleane and pure, unmixt and unmangeled with borowing of other tunges; wherein if we take not heed by tiim, ever borowing and never paying, she shall be fain to keep her house as bankrupt‘.

"Or, and this is creeping so fast...."

Long ago when I was a lad starting a sentence with a conjunction would have been a good way to achieve derision in class or even a dose of cane on the paw. Following a conjunction with a comma would have been a calumny quite beyond the pale.

I often wonder what they do with young civil servants as they are for the most part well educated but lose any faculty to express themselves in English with the passing of years before finally achieving constructions only known to Sir Humprey Appleby and of course Chinese Mandarins.

http://sites.middlebury.edu/middmag/2013/02/05/language-in-depth-what-is-the-meaning-of-meaning/

Yes I know Rollo, but I left it there anyway ;-)

One of my favourite books is 'Lord of the Rings', it is perfect in so many ways, except that ( particularly in TROTK) way too many sentences begin with "And"

:-D

"way too many" is probably also a bridge too far :-)

" We don’t usually use conjunctions to start sentences when we’re writing, but people do when they’re speaking. " learnenglishteens.britishcouncil.org

Which begs the question, when posting on here do you write as you speak or as you would write if it were a letter, essay etc? My answer would be that I write as I am thinking so my posts are 'my voice'. This is why I sometimes have to edit several times before pressing send, my voice might have been tempted to say something it shouldn't ;-)

The exception to that is when it is an important topic or debate when I try and make my argument coherent and 'written' rather than 'spoken' if you see what I mean :-D

I have had to force myself to write s I speak on here., OH has always said that what comes from pen is very different from what comes out of my mouth.

Did you see or hear any of the English questions from the SATS tests for ten year olds?

I could not answer them and neither did I understand why they needed to be taught to children why are not able to use word correctly.

I have said his before that sloppy use of words and grammar are acceptable in everyday conversation but it makes me very angry to see journalists badly misuse English. It is, after all, the tool of their trade. As you would not expect your pumber to turn up with a plastic spoon and a sticking plaster so you should not expect to buy a newspaper with information that makes no sense.

P.S What time is 12pm?

Sharron, this is one of the questions


Tick the option that shows how the underlined words are used in the sentence.

My baby brother was born in the hospital where my father works.( last four words underlined)

" as a preposition phrase
as a relative clause
as a main clause
as a noun phrase"

I haven't a clue! I don't think at 10 I had even heard the words preposition or clause. I just knew how a sentence should be written.

I don't know either but would say that was a relative clause.

As a stuck up grammar school madam I did know all about prepositions and nouns and stuff and they have stood me in such good stead in life.

Pedantic

:-)

:-D

lol there are more things to worry about that's for sure, kindness is more important than grammar imho, and give me an honest person who drop's his aitches over a dishonest one who sounds his vowels correctly any day ;-)

The only 11plus question I remember ( it's a long time ago!) is naming the young of various animals, I can still do that :-)

"Words are the dress of thoughts, which should no more be presented in rags, tatters, and dirt, than your person should". (Earl of Chesterfield).

Do they still have dictation in school?
It was very important in my day...and to get into university you had to have an A level in Latin...
Rollo ...I was referring to the ones on here who ,even though not as old as me,were taught in an age when we had some discipline.

I think it depends on the school, Brenda. Both my granddaughters had spelling tests and dictation once a week from the age of 5. I remember one of them learning to, too and two one week and putting them in simple sentences to show that they knew the meanings.

Their cousins, same town, different school, only started spelling and punctuation at about 9 or 10. It helps of course if the teacher is literate!!

I agree with you Andysmum.... A lot depends as well on their home life.
Parents used to take an interest in what they had done at school.Some probably still do.I certainly think standards have dropped over the last few years
I can't speak for everyone,but most children sat at the table to eat meals and chat about their day,showed you their homework etc.
I don't watch soap operas,but if I've flicked through channels and if life is like that children will get away with things we weren't allowed to.

Standards began to drop in the late 60's, when the idea that content was more important than spelling etc. was copied from America at about the time that the Americans decided it wasn't such a good idea after all!!

At the same time it was decided that children should learn at their own pace and not be forced to do things they didn't like - such as reading! :-( :-(

I had a friend whose daughter was at the local primary school, where the headmaster was very modern. Every day Mum would ask daughter what she had been doing at school and every day daughter answered "reading".

Knowing that the class had 30 pupils Mum asked whether all the children read every day. "Oh, no," said daughter, " when teacher asks who wants to come and read to her, I'm the only one that says Yes."

Another friend had a 9-year old son at the same school. He was supposed to be taking the 11-plus the following year and he couldn't read at all. Mum confronted the headmaster about this and was told not to worry - he'll learn when he's ready. :-0 :-0

"It was very important in my day...and to get into university you had to have an A level in Latin..""

It has never been a university requirement to hold an "A" level in Latin unless the student is applying to read Classics / Greats.

Way back in the day before the new universities were founded starting in the 1960s the choice lay between Oxbridge and a bunch of very traditional institutions ranging from Durham to Kings College and UMIST.

For a long time Oxbridge did not care whether the applicant had any A levels or not each college relying on its own idiosyncratic selection methods. Even when student grants were linked to A levels Oxbridge only asked for a minimum of two A levels any grade! A colleague of mine at school got in with two grade D and graduated with a first in Greats. One of my ancestors was at Cambridge in the C17 and he graduated before he was 20 no A levels .

Leaving aside Oxbridge the majority of unis from the 60s demanded a foreign language GSCE.

What is for sure is that lack of a fluent second language def. holds back job opportunities for those who can only offer English. This is a major factor in recruiting foreigners. Currently the hot tickets are Mandarin Chinese, Farsi and Spanish.

I recently ran the primary school grammar SAT tests against a dozen guys n girls wanting gopher contracts. Despite all being graduates only two passed both girls. (!)

It def. does not help that most of the population cannot tell the difference between vocational training and education. That especially applies to journalists and politicians..

"It def. "

I am sorry Rollo ...in my school in the 1940s it was a requirement....We were graded into classes In the 2nd year of High School.You went into Latin if you were university material.Then German and then Spanish then Commercial.

Maybe that was just for Manchester University, I don't know but my school was near there and I was there for the first year of O level...before that it was school certificate.
That's what we were told...pupils could upgrade if they showed later promise,but they had to take the Latin Exams....French was compulsory for everyone.

My parents weren't rich.My mother took in sewing to pay for my trip to Paris with school(where we had to wear our school uniform) in 1951 which was one of the first trips after the war.it cost her £26 for the week.!