General Chat

please see below.

Next week we are going to Buxton to see hubby's Army buddy, they are both very good friends and went through the Gulf war (1st) and Bosnia together which has made them very close. Now, when they get together, which is not very often (his friend has been in spain for2 yrs) they tend to get absolutely blitzed! not a problem as they are both good as gold, and neither of them drink very often. The problem is... whatever they saw and had to do in Bosnia has affected them both greatly, as the last 2 occasions they got together like this they both ended up so very upset and in tears when they recalled the events. If it were anyone else i might have words of comfort and understanding, but these two men are so close to my heart i find it so very hard to think rationally and distance myself from thinking lucidly. Whatever happened out there must have affected so many soldiers... and i do know, many of them have been through Counselling 9hubby was one of them) but unfortunately this did not work. I think, that unless you have been there with them, you cannot completely grasp the horrors they witnessed and no amount of reasoning and rationale will help soothe their obviously troubled minds. Hubby did tell me one story, if i may relate, They had to go to a 'brick factory' one day. a large square buliding/Tower where Mud etc was poured inot to make some sort of bricks... Over 100 women and children had been thrown in this Building/tower alive, then this concrete/mud mixture was poured in over them, they were buiried alive. when hubby and other soldiers excavated the tower they found the bodies of the women, all crouched over the children and babies, the mothers were trying desparately to save thir children. there were several clawing marks on the sides of the Tower. Of course, they were all dead. I myself , cannot comprehend such atrocity, and certainly as a mother do not think i, faced with seing this horror could ever be able to put it behind me. what can i say? Nothing really, but just be there for him... Its very sad indeed, isnt it.

I can't reply to that, so I will just hold a quiet silence. Gloria x

I understand Gloria xx

I don't know what to say! It is good they have each other. Kaz

Em... seeing sights like this, is not what these good men joined the army for... they are meant to save lives... yes, they will come in contact with death, but death in normal war is a bad enough traumatic event sights like this must tear the mind of the people who have to deal with it. It must have been so hard in Bosnia, seeing so many terrible things happening and not being able to do anything about it... being 'peace keepers' and not being able to stop such atrocities must be the hardest thing to bear. The soldiers that had to go to Bosnia have my admiration (for what that's worth) and my thoughts... Lest we forget!!!! Jacquie xxxx

em as you know i was there in mostar and sarajevo during the war. the problem is that the counselling received by the troops was seen as a quick fix, as in a couple of sessions and then youre fine now. Bosnia was pretty bad in comparison to the first gulf which was more conventional. the damage to ordinary people's life was the most affecting part. sometimes its actually quite good to relive events. it brings them to the fore and makes you deal with them. hopw hubby copes ok.. xx

Hi Em, These men have a bond that only they can know 100%, it something that is there with them all the time even if unspoken, god bless them all. Roxanne xxx

Sadly there is no limit to' Mans Inhumanity to Man' Just imagine what it must be like for any one who discovers things like that.At least now they get some sort of councelling.The poor chaps who came across Belson and the Like had none.One of them was my Uncle,a more Happy go Lucky Man you could ever meet.He never got over it and was never the same again. All you can do is sympathise,and be there when wanted,because it will always be with them,no matter what. Hal.

Em, I have just finished reading 'Shake hands with the Devil' written by Romeo Dallaire (Canadian General retired) former head of the UN peacekeeping mission in Rwanda. This man suffered severe post-traumatic stress disorder, and almost lost his sanity as a result of what he experienced and witnessed in Rwanda. He has been quoted as saying 'Rwanda will never ever leave me, it is in the pores of my body' and 'My soul is with the spirits of all those people who were slaughtered and killed' Your husband and his friend will likely understand and relate to these words. God love them both. Patty x

Thanks for your messages, I can understand the veiwpoint that, veterans of WW2 also went through harrowing ordeals and in those days, like with all other situations of atrocity people did not receive counselling, just told to 'get on with It'. The problem with todays counselling, i have learnt was that it was very often done by young very inexperienced 'trainee' counsellors, who really could not, by no fault of their own, completely understand the horrors of war. Following WW2 the following generations have quite rightly been reminded over and over again of the Barbaric and Zealot nature of Nazi Behaviour etc. It is i think ingrained on all our consciences through relatives we knew/know, films, media, books, politicians etc (and of course through schooling). But the 'newer wars, as yet are not, and nobody but these soldiers have any real understanding of what they went through.

Hi Em There's not a lot I can say as I can't even begin to imagine the horror of what your hubby and his friend (and many others) went through. Just let him know you're there for him (I'm sure you already have). Lots of hugs and listen when he wants to talk, maybe some professional councilling. Juliexx

As a past counsellor, I sometimes had to counsel counsellors who could not take what they heard and had to relive with the client. Work that one out. As has already been mentioned, a couple of sessions is inadequate. I have given people, mostly men, 26 or more weekly sessions. With that number of sessions, success rate was about 80% - on my case load. len