General Chat

Someone I once knew has been jailed for murder and it's quite shocked my sense of good and bad. I have this belief that most people are basically good but that we all are all capable of doing the wrong thing. But it's really strange to read that someone I knew to have good qualities is the same person the papers present as so wicked. Can good people do bad things or does the deed make them bad?

From my criminal research it seems that even the most innocent looking people can go on to commit terrible crimes. Moments of madness seem to appear, as do outside influences such as alcohol. I'm sure it depends on the individual.

Wow David - it must seem surreal.

It does Bendy - hard to believe. You're right Daniel - most of the time most of us are controlled by our consciences and conditioning but there are moments we lose control and there's a more base instinct in most of us (unless it's just me lol)

I used to be a volunteer visitor at a high security prison. Over a number of years several fundamental beliefs of mine were confirmed. Amongst others: Bad things happen to good people. There but for the grace of god....... One never knows how one will react in a given situation until it happens. We may surprise or disappoint ourselves. 'Never judge another until you have walked a mile in their moccasins' is a good measure to try to live by. David, the person you knew is still that person and what you read in the paper is just another perspective on an individual and what has happened to them. That's not to condone what they did, just to say that there's always the bigger picture than that portrayed in the 'news'.

Thats a difficult one David I know a very good person who made just one mistake (an error of judgement), but, as I know the circumstances surrounding it, it doesn't alter my opinion of them. If I hadn't known when I read it in the paper, then I might have thought differently That is one of the problems of taking them to court, the jury only knows the person by what they are told about them. In court the 'good lad' with the least involvement had his character destroyed and the person most to blame was portrayed as loving son, upright citizen (all who knew him knew different). The worst of it was the person I knew wouldn't even have been involved if his concience hadn't got the better of him and he went and confessed his small involvement, the other guy denied everything. Guess who went to prison and who walked free!!!!!! Mandy

Mandy, You're very right, things can get very distorted in court, some people are better at 'working the system' than others... Thats said, yes, it's very true that good people can, on occasion, do bad things. Paul

I think it's more complex than just good and bad, and depends on the crime. I've read lots of stuff on criminology (in fact the contents of 2 shelves of my bookcase sometimes 'worries' my husband!) and , although there are generalised categories of criminal 'types', it's not an exact science. Personality disorders, head injuries, awful childhoods, outside events and triggers can all contribute to criminal behaviour. A person has capacity for good and bad.

And to get really philisophical..........what is good and bad......... Without bad can there be good?

Ooooh David, you know what to ask to get us all thinking! Were there any 'mitigating circumstances', ie anything that would have made your friend behave out of character? Look at Harold Shipman for instance - before anyone started getting suspicious, I suppose being a doctor (upstanding member of the community etc) he must have had good friends who believed in him and trusted him. I think we all have 'original sin' in us but it's how we deal with it that matters, whether we have a conscience etc. Not sure if any of that makes sense, it's quite difficult to write down what I meant. Still a huge shock to you David, I'm sure it feels really strange. Love Mandy :) x

Thanks all for answering The person wasn't a friend but was very kind to me once and I honestly don't think differently of them because I can't equal the person I remember with the person I've read about with all the unpleasant background that the papers report. Mandy, there weren't really any mitigating circumstances involved in the actual crime but as Sheila and Felicity have sort of said - this person's life wasn't mine and who knows what we'd be if life had treated us differently:) David

Isn't there something somewhere about 'Hate the sin but love the sinner?' Gwynne

I totally agree Gwynne. Hubby and i are trying to get over a massive shock at the moment. A very very dear friend of ours who lived down south had not been in touch for a while, he was the sort of person to who everyone could rely on in their time of need, a true friend. We got a phone call off his mum to tell us he was in prison.... but would not tell us why. well you can imagine, our minds were racing as to what on earth would have lead our friend to break the law. he had never even had so much of a speeding ticket prior to this!. We wrote to him in Prison, and back and forth the letters went... he would not tell us what he had done, and we had to respect that. He was, after all a good friend and we had to trust that what he had done, had not been something that would have gone against our moral beliefs. suddenly, a few weeks ago, the letters stopped. we were concerned, and phoned his mum. She said he was a bit low but otherwise ok. ' weeks ago, we got a phonecall. He was dead. he was only 30. It looks like he committed suicide, the inquest was inconclusive. WE buried our friend last week.... and it was only then we learnt of his crime. in Desperation, after his dad dying and not wanting to see his mum homeless, he took on the mortgage for her house. Then got made redundant. he got a part time job in a clearing bank, and from what we can establish there was some sort of fraud invovled. Yes a crime, yes, nobody can condone it, and yes we were shocked. But he was our friend, and i am so glad we did not turn our backs on him, as others did because they did not know his crime and just assumed the very worst atrocity. So, as Gwynne said, Hate the sin but love the sinner.