General Chat

Can anyone help please? I will try to break this down as best as I can so not to confuse. My Great Grandfather was George Crockett B.1856 in Southwark. He married a Mary Ann Holt. Well that’s what I thought as I have all their children’s Birth Certificates and Mary has put formerly Holt as her maiden surname. Their first child was Born 1890 Catherine Crockett & they went onto have several other children. I have the Census for 1891 & 1890 which shows them all living in Bethnal Green. So I then set out to find the Birth of Mary Ann Holt. Working it out from the census returns she was born in Highgate / Holloway around 1866/67. So I looked for a Birth entry for a Mary Ann Holt and ordered 2 that looked promising but they were incorrect. There were no other Mary’s that matched around that time. I then started looking for a marriage entry for George Crockett & Mary Holt but could not find one at all. Then one day just by chance I came across a marriage entry for a George Crockett & Mary Hill in 1889 Bethnal Green which would be about right with Catherine their first daughter being born 1890 in Whitechapel. So I ordered it! It reads George Crockett & Mary Hill (not Mary Ann), aged 31 & 21 (Census that I already have shows they were 10 years apart in age so that seemed correct), it then read George Crockett Bachelor & Mary Hill Spinster but Mary's Father is James Holt Deceased. So her name is Mary HILL Father James HOLT. Well now I’m really confused! I looked again at both surnames and they are clear HILL & HOLT. I am trying to come up with an explanation on to what has happened now. Mary's age is 21 on the marriage Cert so she could have been married before but why does it say Spinster? It would say Widow or Divorced wouldn’t it? I then thought Mary's Mother may have married twice when Mary was young and James Holt her real father had died so Mary took on her mothers second husband's surname of HILL. On all the Birth Certs of George & Mary's children it reads Mothers maiden name HOLT. It seems Mary has been known as Mary Hill probably since being very young but when coming to getting married has to put her real Fathers name and has to give her real maiden name on all her children’s Birth Certs for legal reasons! Anyway I really don't know where to look next does anyone have any other explanations? Does anyone know where they might start to look next? I really could do with some help! I've been trying to sort this problem out for 10 Years now. I want to thank you for taking the time to read this. Please if anyone can really help in anyway then please email me through this site or leave a reply to this thread. I would be most grateful. Regards Sue

Have you looked for births for Mary HILL c1866. Perhaps she was born illegitimate and registered under that name and not the surname HOLT? But he parents might have later married, and she took on the surname HOLT, but when it came to her marrying she used the name she was registered with?!?

If her dad died when she was young and mum remarried/co-habited maybe she was known as Hill and didn't find out till later, Sorry only explanation I could think of Jan

So Mary's mother might have been Hill then they had Mary and then got married. mmmmmmmmm didnt think of that! So Chloe do you think I should look for a marriage of her parents after she was born? Can't understand why she didnt put HILL on her childrens Birth Certs though? Still I will follow this up thankyou Chloe.

Thankyou Jan yes maybe she didnt find out till later her mother might not have wanted to tell her. Sue

Just an idea Susan. But maybe something to look at.

Susan I am having trouble with my tree because my granmother and my great grandmother were not married and it was law then that any children born out of wedlock had to take there mothers name, and in those days if they did get married after they could not aford to change the names so they kept it as it was, the thing is it makes it hard to trace because I have a great great Aunt who died as a baby and because she has her mothers maiden name it is hard to find her, and most of these children were born in private homes not hospitals. Debs.

Hi Debs, Yes its looking more like what you have described! Its not got the better of me yet I will try to exhaust every avenue then give up gracefully I think. Thanx for your reply. Regards Sue