Profile | Posted by | Options | Post Date |
|
Jennifer
|
Report
|
18 Apr 2014 01:15 |
My Grandfather William Perrin was born in 1875 In Yorkshire. He was illegitmate.He took his mother's surname Perrin, but I don't know when the name was changed. His mother would have nothing to do with his father George Patterson. He had a younger half brother Robert. I have tried to find out about his family with no success. I would appreciate any help I can get. Many Thanks, Jen.
|
|
JoonieCloonie
|
Report
|
18 Apr 2014 03:55 |
Hi Jennifer and welcome here :-)
can you tell us his mother's given name for starters?
presumably his birth was registered in his father's name Patterson?
do you know what brother Robert's surname was? was he the child of a man that William's mother married?
did William marry as Perrin? can you tell us his wife's name?
some other fact or facts are needed, to go hunting for him in a census to try to find him with family
|
|
Flip
|
Report
|
18 Apr 2014 04:41 |
I assume this is his marriage?
William Perrin Gender:Male Marital Status:Single Birth Date:1876
Marriage Date:8 Feb 1897 Marriage Place: Shirebrook, Shirebrook, Derbyshire, England Marriage Age:21 Father: George Pattison <<<< Spouse: Emily Jones FHL Film Number: 1752119
|
|
Flip
|
Report
|
18 Apr 2014 04:55 |
They certainly moved around a bit:
William Perrin Age in 1901:23 Estimated birth year bt 1878 Relation:Head Spouse's Name:Emily Perrin Gender:Male Where born:Barnsley, Yorkshire, England Civil Parish:Roath Ecclesiastical parish:Roath St Saviour Town:Cardiff County/Island:Glamorgan Country:Wales Street address: View image Condition as to marriage: View image Education: View image
Employment status:View image Occupation:View image Registration district:Cardiff Sub-registration district:East Cardiff ED, institution, or vessel:31 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 300 Piece:4976 Folio:153 Page Number:51
Household Members: Name Age
William Perrin 23 Emily Perrin 20 (Born Sheffield) Emily Perrin 3 (Steans Bridge, Herts) Nellie Perrin 2 (Portland, Dorset)
|
|
Flip
|
Report
|
18 Apr 2014 04:59 |
Nellie Perrin
Age in 1911: 12
Estimated birth year: abt 1899
Relation to Head: Daughter
Birth Place: Portland, Dorset
Civil Parish:Bath
County/Island:Somerset Country:England Street address: 18 Great Corn Street, Bath, Somersetshire Occupation:school
Registration district:Bath Registration District Number:316 Sub-registration district:Walcot ED, institution, or vessel:2 Household schedule number:385 Piece:14704
Household Members: NameAge
Emily Perrin 30 Nellie Perrin 12 Mabel Perrin 9 (Devon Heyham) William Perrin 7 (Gibraltar) Hilda Perrin 5 (Letterstone) Rose Perrin 3 (Newport) Florence Brown 33 Edward Brown 30 Herbert Brown 1
Emily states married 14 years, 6 children all living. Still says married, but William is absent at time of census
|
|
MarieCeleste
|
Report
|
18 Apr 2014 08:29 |
According to an unsourced tree on Ancestry, William was born 11 Jun 1878 in Barnsley, married Emily Jones 2 Aug 1897 (date conflicts with actual records) and died 14 April 1948 in Leicester.
10 children born 1897 to 1924.
No info on parents.
EDIT: I think the marriage date on that tree may have been input in the US format of MM/DD/YYYY so has reversed the day and month.
|
|
ErikaH
|
Report
|
18 Apr 2014 09:02 |
You refer to a name change..............for whom...............and to what?
|
|
patchem
|
Report
|
18 Apr 2014 09:36 |
Jennifer,
Have you found William on any census before his marriage, and who do you think his Mother is?
Thank-you
Added: Have you got a year of birth for Robert, and is he Perrin, Patterson, or something else?
|
|
MarieCeleste
|
Report
|
18 Apr 2014 09:55 |
As Jen is a relatively new user of the boards I've sent her a message about returning. Of course, there's also the possibility of time differences.
Jen - when you say William took his mother's surname, was that her maiden name or did he take the name of a stepfather if she married a Perrin?
What other info do you have about his mother?
Do you have any idea who the father of Robert was?
Have you got William's actual marriage certificate to see who the witnesses were?
When I read the words "His mother would have nothing to do with his father George Patterson" then I doubt if the birth would have been registered as Patterson/Pattison (unless the falling out came later).
|
|
alviegal
|
Report
|
18 Apr 2014 10:08 |
His marriage with a wee bit more detail. He does not appear to have fallen out with his father if the witness is, indeed, the same man.
Derbyshire Marriages Transcription First Name William Last Name Perrin Age 21 Day Of Marriage 8 Month Of Marriage Feb Abode Shirebrook Occupation Labourer Place Shirebrook Holy Trinity Status Bachelor Father's Name George Pattison Father Occupation Labourer Spouse Name Jones Emily Witnessess George Pattison/Sarah Cleaver Vaughan Signed X ByBanns Or Licence Banns
|
|
Jennifer
|
Report
|
19 Apr 2014 06:10 |
I don't know William Perrin's mother's name. All my Aunts & Uncles are deceased so I only have my older cousins to ask. No one know's her first name. I & my cousin are fairly certain Perrin was her maiden name. Robert was George Pattison's son. He lived in Birmingham near to my cousin, who knew him. William's mother would have nothing to do with George Pattison & refused to marry him. William did keep in contact with him, William had changed his name to Perrin by the time he married. I have seen the marriage certificate but do not have it & was surprised George Pattison's name was on it. William can only be found on the 1901 census along with his wife Emily & two daughter's Emily & Nellie. William worked as a Train engineer and helped build the railway in Singapore. He also worked in Malta & the Middle East. Which may be why he isn't on some of the later census'. I can't understand why I can't find him on earlier census' in either surname. Jen
|
|
patchem
|
Report
|
19 Apr 2014 07:40 |
William was born in Barnsley according to 1901 census.
William married in Shirebrook, about 30 miles from Barnsley, and his father, George, was present.
His father's son, Robert, lived in Birmingham - but was born where?
Was Robert his only legitimate son, so George had married before Robert's birth?
If William was illegitimate, his surname is that of his Mother, and so he would not 'change' it to Perrin - it never was Patt*son?
The other witness to the marriage - Sarah Cleaver Vaughan - have you attempted to find her to see if she was related?
Added: No suitable Perrin or Patt*son births in Barnsley 1875-1880.
Have you got a death for him?
|
|
ErikaH
|
Report
|
19 Apr 2014 09:23 |
The mother must have had something 'to do' with her son's father...........lol!
The surname Pattison is more prevalent further north than Yorkshire
Do you have any proof that the name Perrin was that of William's mother?
His birth does not appear to have been registered in that name...........
There is no George Pattison living in Yorkshire in 1881
What was his occupation?
|
|
Mavis
|
Report
|
19 Apr 2014 15:34 |
father George was a Labourer on William's Marriage to Emily Jones
is any more known of Robert Patterson/ Pattison , is it known when he died so birth could be worked out ??
tried to find Sarah Cleaver Vaughan -- even tried just Sarah Cleaver just as a Christian name and in Death's and marriages nothing relates to Vaughan
Mavis
|
|
Mavis
|
Report
|
19 Apr 2014 17:59 |
could this William be of interest ??
1881 Wakefield
Name: Catherine Patterson Age: 55 Estimated birth year: abt 1826 Relationship to Head: Head Gender: Female Where born: Wakefield, Yorkshire, England Civil Parish: Wakefield County/Island: Yorkshire Country: England Street address: Albion Yard Marital Status: Windower (Widower) Education:
Employment status:
View image Registration district: Wakefield Sub-registration district: Wakefield ED, institution, or vessel: 14 Neighbors: View others on page Piece: 4578 Folio: 89 Page Number: 23 Household Members: Name Age Catherine Patterson 55 Born Wakefield Mary A. Patterson 21 born Wakefield Thomas Patterson 16 born Wakefield William Patterson 5 grandson born Wakefield
not found this family 1871 trying to see if they had a George
a William Patterson appears on 1891 born Wakefield father a William -- William's mother is a Frances so not the one above. think he is William Henry Patterson born Sep Q 1875 Wakefield
took an interest in the William with Catherine
William Patterson June Q 1875 Wakefield 9c 50
Wakefield district is next to Barnsley district
Can any one find them on other Census ??
Mavis
|
|
alviegal
|
Report
|
19 Apr 2014 21:20 |
Found this Sarah Cleaver. Don't know if it's correct though. They seem to be in Birmingham for each census.
Marriages Mar 1872 (>99%) CLEAVER Sarah Birmingham 6d 249 MORGAN Albert Birmingham 6d 249 SCOLTOCK Emma Birmingham 6d 249 VAUGHAN William Birmingham 6d 249
1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription Print this page View image First Name WILLIAM Last Name VAUGHAN Relationship HEAD Condition MARRIED Gender Male Age 29 Year Of Birth 1852 Occupation ENGINE FITTER Birth Town BHM Birth County WARWICKSHIRE Birth Place - House Number 127 House Name - Street WINSON ST Town - Parish BIRMINGHAM County Warwickshire Country ENGLAND Registration District BIRMINGHAM Archive Reference RG11 Piece Number 3005 Folio 37 Page 26
FREDERICK CLEAVER W BROTHER 18 1863 BHM Image Transcription JOSEPH CLEAVER W BROTHER 15 1866 BHM Image Transcription MARY CLEAVER W MOTHER 59 1822 BHM Image Transcription ALICE VAUGHAN DAUGHTER 6 1875 BHM Image Transcription ELIZABETH VAUGHAN DAUGHTER 1 1880 BHM Image Transcription ELLEN VAUGHAN DAUGHTER 5 1876 BHM Image Transcription FLORENCE VAUGHAN DAUGHTER 8 1873 BHM Image Transcription SARAH VAUGHAN WIFE 31 1850 BHM Image Transcription WILLIAM VAUGHAN SON 3 1878 BHM
|