Genealogy Chat

The other person is a mystery.
He is my husbands grandfather William Trigg born in Hereford 1854.
He married Mary Jane Lawrence and lived in
Newton e Willows, Lancs.
He is on the 1911 census along with a boarder, widower Peter Heaton.
A few years ago l found out he had spent a few short terms in jail for larceny.
And wonder if this happened in 1901 as his wife and children are with
Mary Janes Parents.
There are also stories that Peter Heaton fathered some of the children.
Hes a slippery character l cant nail lol.
Would love to find out more

My paternal grandmother was called Maryanne Latham, born in Nantwich in 1859
I can find Granddad Thomas on 1911 census born Skelmersdale
Living in Baxters Lane. St Helens, Lancs
But can find nothing after that.

The 1939 register (posted above) for Uncle Edward Thomas shows he was a builder's labourer in 1939.

What was Mary (Mother of Thomas Bate) maiden name?

Yes l knew that about Uncle Russ, he was a lovely uncle who had a garage and haulage business. Cousin Billy is still alive, he has a riding school in Wigan.

1939. Dad had 3 susters, Margaret is missing.
Quaggin was Francess Married name. She married Uncle from Isle of Man.
Another lovely holiday destination of mine until l was 7 when they moved.

Mum married dad in 1947. Dads 3 sisters treated mum very much like
Cinderella. They felt above her because she was raised in a home.
I too lived at that address but speak very differently to some of my aunts.

I believe dads dad was gassed during the war but can find no sign of his records.
No one every spoke about him or reminisced ?.

Uncle Teds records will be closed because his sons Bernard and Dennis are still
Alive.
Uncle Ted lost all his fingers from one hand. He used to tell me it was through biting his nails. He worked all his life at The Orthopedic Hospital in Oswestry.

You may notice my username is Mollydolly. This is a nod to my mum who was known as Molly by her relatives.

Thanks you so much for your help

Your father in 1939:

Bate Household 91 Gaskell Street , St Helens C.B., Lancashire, England

Mary A Bate 22 Sep 1885 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Widowed
Frances Quaggin (Bate) 13 Sep 1915 Female Hospital Ward Maid Single
Thomas Bate 18 Feb 1921 Male Sheet Metal Filler & Finisher Single

Just noticed- the marriage for Dorothy- to Charles T R Hurst in 1934.

Son, Russell was born John Russell
----------------------------

Russell's death?

First name(s) CHARLES RUSSELL
Last name HURST
Gender Male
Birth day 7 August 1916
Death quarter 2
Death year 1981
District Bolton
County Lancashire
Volume 38 Page 0050
----------------------------------

If that death is him, then this looks like him in 1939:

Hurst Household 5 Barnhill , Westhoughton U.D., Lancashire, England
Charles R Hurst 07 Aug 1916 Male Bus Driver P S V Married
Closed Record
Closed Record

I suspect the closed records are for Dorothy, and son, John Russell (William wasn't born until after the 1939 register).
---------------------------------------------

A little snippet from the papers:

Manchester Evening News - Tuesday 25 March 1941

Refused To Appear Before Doctors
Charles Russell Hurst (24) of Leigh Common, Westhoughton, fined £5 at Bolton today for a breach of the Nation Service (Armed Forces) Act 1939 was stated to have refused to submit himself to medical examination, declaring he did not believe in war.
The magistrates made an order that Hurst- a conscientious objector, liable to be called up for non-combatant duties only, should be taken before a medical board at Bolton tomorrow.

People help because they find family history interesting- you're doing us the favour, by giving us puzzles to solve!

On the 1939 register that your Mum is on, there is a closed record. A closed record indicates a possible living person. Perhaps the closed record is Jean?

Who are you wanting to find- ask away :-)

Oh YES this sounds just like Aunty Dorothy. Mum only met her in the home
When she was 16. She got mum out of the home but it didnt work out.
Aunty Dorothy lived in Westhoughton Bolton with her husband Canadian Russel Hurst.. and sons Russel and William.
You couldn't tell they where sisters, mum was short and dark. Aunty Dorothy was
tall and blonde.
Although they were close, Aunty Dorothy visited Uncle Ted in Oswestry whereas
Mum visited with my grandma at a place called Lake Vyrnwy. The most beautiful area where l spent many happy holidays with my gran, and Her sister who owned the farm.
Need to look into what mums dad got up to now, swine.

I spoke to dads cousin Jean earlier, l dont know why she wasn't on the census with
Her siblings.
She confirmed mum lived with them before marrying Joe. Then mum lived with her
In laws until Joe Died in Burma during the war. She then moved back to live with them again.
While she was there she was asked to go and live in St Helens and be a
Helper for Mary Ann Bate ( my paternal grandmother.
While there my dad came home after the war and the rest is history
They married in 1947 at St Josephs church.


Thank you souch for this information. Is there a fee ir charitable donation l could make.

There is someone else l would like to find x

This is a possible birth for sister Dorothy:

First name(s) DOROTHY
Last name OAKLEY
Birth year 1917
Birth quarter 4
Mother's last name Oakley
District Oswestry
County Shropshire
Volume 6A Page 803

Do you know anything more about Dorothy- if she married, did she return to Shropshire/ Wales?
----------------------------------------------------

I assume this is the birth for brother Edward Thomas (no mother's maiden name on GRO index):

First name(s) EDWARD THOMAS
Last name OAKLEY
Birth year 1910
Birth quarter 1
District Oswestry
County Shropshire
Volume 6A Page 602
--------------------------------------------------------

He married Margaret Tudor in 1936- this is them in 1939 (surname is Oakley on original):

Oakey Household (2 People) 1 Rose Cottage , Oswestry R.D., Shropshire, England
Margaret E Oakey 29 Dec 1913 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married
Edward T Oakey 23 Dec 1909 Male Builders Labourer Married
Closed record
Closed record
-----------------------------------------------

Thinking about it l dont think the above is correct seeing as mum is only 17 there.
I have to rethink.
I know Aunty Dorothy got mum out of the home and that things didnt work out.
It must have been then when mum went to live with Uncle Billy and
Aunty Edie.
Fortunately there is still a member of that family (dads cousin) still alive.
I'll call her later .

Oh Thank you. My mum went to live with Uncle Billy and Auntie Edie when Joe
Mullen Died and she had Nowhere to Live.
She loved them very much and treated them as parents.
It was through them that mum met my dad who was a Cousin.
Mum and dad are now buried in a plot in Wigan next to them.
Aunty Edie is the sister of my Grandmother who was born in Cheshire, but whose father moved
To St helens to work in a chemical factory

Your mother 1939:

Eatock Household (6 People) 45 Moss Lane , Hindley U.D., Lancashire, England

William Eatock 22 May 1897 Male Colliery Dirt Packer (Below) Heavy Worker Married
Edith Eatock 12 Sep 1897 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married
Edith Melia (Birchall) 17 Sep 1921 Female Derby Tenter- Cotton Spinning Single
Closed Record
Elizabeth Wilson (Eatock) 18 Sep 1931 Female At School Single
Patrick Rush ? ? 1876 Male Cowman Incapacitated Single
Doris M Bate (Mullen,Pickering) 27 Oct 1920 Female Setter- On Card Room Cotton Spinning Single

(Pickering crossed out on image with Pickavance written above)

OMG so much to take in.
I'llreply best l can with the info l have.
Re; Joe Mullen above, as if life hadnt been rough enough for mum.
Joe was mums first husband but died in Burma during the War. I have a beautiful wedding photo of them.
I'm happy you found Joe, l couldn't

Mums dad was born in Wigan and John and Clara where his parents.

I dont think the Dorothy Noted is the correct one.

Really stumped over Harriet 1921, d1924.
Mum was placed in the home in Fazakerley when she was 2. 1922
Gran then had to work as a housekeeper in Billinge Wigan.
If there was a Harriet did gran keep her or did she go into the home too.

I did follow the link and saud that it was the same place mum went.
The problem now is accessing records. One link seems to link to another
Until l'm at Lancashire records which seems a huge area.

Thank you all for your help its so exciting.
I moved to Wales almost 40 years ago.
My gran had moved back here and l also had relatives in Wrexham and Oswestry.
When l started Doing genealogy l was shocked to find that Grans parents
Lived just a few miles from me originally. And l find ancestors that lived all around
Where i am now. Makes me feel very much at home.

I will check out Samuel Warburton in the 1911 census in the hope of getting
Grans details for that year

If you look for Thomas Pickavance on 1939 census there is one living in Chorley, born 1899, with an Elizabeth A Pickavance, and a closed record.

This marriage?
Marriages Sep 1923
Arrowsmith Elizabeth A Pickavance Chorley 8e 1320
Pickavance Thomas Arrowsmith Chorley 8e 1320

One son showing for that marriage, born 1925.

Not sure who was the Soldier?...(Pickavance or Oakley, getting a bit confused, lol)

Chris :)

http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Search/indexp.html

(looking round on above, there was below)

Marriage: 7 Sep 1940 All Saints, Hindley, Lancashire, England
Joseph Mullen - 20, Soldier, Bachelor, 8 William Street
Doris Mary Pickavance - 19, Mill Hand, Spinster, 122 Sandy Lane
Groom's Father: John Thomas Mullen, Collier
Bride's Father: Thomas Pickavance, (deceased), Labourer
Witness: John Thomas Mullen; William Thomas
Married by Banns by: Eric O. Beard, Asst.Curate of S.Faith, Gt Crosby, Liverpool
Register: Marriages 1935 - 1946, Page 134, Entry 268
Source: LDS Film 93751



Marriage: 30 Jan 1897 St James, Poolstock, Wigan, Lancs.
John Pickavance - 20, Collier, Bachelor, 10 Ormandey's House
Clara Leek - 21, Spinster, 19 Ormandey's House
Bride's Father: Thomas Leek, Bricksetter
Witness: Robert Hughes; Katie Shields
Married by Banns by: E. L. Bull, Curate
Register: Marriages 1888 - 1902, Page 136, Entry 272
Source: Original register at Wigan Archives



Baptism: 30 Aug 1899 St James, Poolstock, Wigan, Lancashire, England
Thomas Pickervance - [Child] of John Pickervance & Clara
Born: 27 Mar 1899
Abode: 8 Ormandy's Houses
Occupation: Miner
Baptised by: E. L. Bull Curate
Source: Original register at Wigan Archives


Baptism: 30 Oct 1901 St James, Poolstock, Wigan, Lancashire, England
John Pickervance - [Child] of John Pickervance & Clara
Born: 20 Sep 1901
Abode: Ormandy's House
Occupation: Miner
Baptised by: E. L. Bull Curate
Source: Original register at Wigan Archives


http://www.wiganworld.co.uk/

(seen above mentioned before, for things Wigan)

Reference to Samuel Warburton 1911 above.

Chris :)

06 April 1927 - Leeds Mercury - Leeds, West Yorkshire, England

YORKSHIRE WOMAN MINE-OWNER.
Mary Ann Warburton, who died on Monday of heart disease, accelerated by a fall down four stairs, and fracturing a leg,on January 15th, at her home in Welbeck-road, Southport. She was the widow of Samuel Warburton, Egerton Lodge, Bury Old-road, Manchester, and partner in the firm of Crawshaw and Warburton. Riding Collieries, Dewsbury. She was 72 years old.


http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/prescot-watch-factory-development-100-year-old-9429628

(reference, watch factory)

Did you click on the info down the page on that website I posted to go to this page

http://www.formerchildrenshomes.org.uk/accessing_records.html

"On my grandmothers marriage Certificate her husband was described as PTE # 552818 16th batt S Lancs Reg"



so he must have joined up .....................

unfortunately only about 30% of the WW1 records have survived, and I cannot see his among them

Emily May in 1901

1901 Census

Name: Emily M Oakley
Age: 8
Estimated birth year: abt 1893
Relation to Head: Daughter
Gender: Female
Father: Thomas Oakley
Mother: Emma Oakley
Birth Place: Chirbury, Monmouthshire, Wales
Civil Parish: Baschurch
Search Photos: Search for 'Baschurch' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
Ecclesiastical parish: All Saints
Town: Baschurch
County/Island: Shropshire
Country: England

Registration district: Ellesmere
Sub-registration district: Baschurch
ED, institution, or vessel: 6

Piece: 2551
Folio: 80
Page Number: 12
Household schedule number: 63

Thomas Oakley 34
Emma Oakley 29
Emily M Oakley 8
Mary E Oakley 6
Alberth S Oakley 3
William Oakley 1



and in 1911 ...... it IS Emily May on the image. Plus someone has written that she had 1 child and then it has been crossed out. Her birthplace looks more like Condover???

1911 Census

Name: Emily Ivy Oakley
Age in 1911: 20
Estimated birth year: abt 1891
Relation to Head: Servant
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Corhoor, Salop, England
Civil Parish: Prestwich
Search Photos: Search for 'Prestwich' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address: Egerton Rodge Prestwich
Marital Status: Single
Occupation: General Servant (Domestie)
Registration district: Prestwich
Registration District Number: 467
Sub-registration district: Prestwich
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Piece: 24209

Samuel Warburton 76 Collery Proprietor
Mary Ann Warburton 55 Wife
Emily Ivy Oakley 20


The address is Edgerton Lodge, and they had 22 rooms!!

If Thomas Pickavance really was born in Wigan, then this looks like him with his parents in 1901 .......

1901 Census

Name: Thomas Pickavance
Age: 2
Estimated birth year: abt 1899
Relation to Head: Son
Gender: Male
Father: John Pickavance
Mother: Clara Pickavance
Birth Place: Wigan, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Wigan
Search Photos: Search for 'Wigan' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
Ecclesiastical parish: Wigan St James
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Registration district: Wigan
Sub-registration district: Wigan
ED, institution, or vessel: 25

Piece: 3555
Folio: 82
Page Number: 7
Household schedule number: 36

John Pickavance 24 b.ca 1877, Wigan, Coal Miner Hewer
Clara Pickavance 25 b.ca 1876, Wigan
George Pickavance 3
Thomas Pickavance 2
Fred Leck 30 Lodger
Edwin Leck 21 Lodger
James Leck 18 Lodger

Address:- 28 Ormandy House