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Got a PM from Jenni -- "on both birth certificates Mary has her name as Satchwill".

My reply:


The one thing I'd say about the 1851 "widow" entry is that a lot of women would say that to look respectable -- single woman with a kid looks better as a widow than as an unmarried woman. It's still possible she was indeed a widow.

Have you ordered the two birth certificates for Ellen? That's the first thing I'd do, if you haven't. One might well have a father recorded. You can specify to the GRO that if it is only one birth / one birth certificate, recorded twice in the index, you only want one copy of the certificate.

Births Dec 1846
Satchwill Ellen Frances St Geo Han Sq 1 11
Ley Ellen St Geo Han Sqr 1 4

Is the "4" a mistranscription?

It looks like she hooked up with Ley before Winter (haven't found a marriage). As she uses her maiden name when marrying Thomas Winter it seems she didn't marry Ley although he must've recognized Ellen for her to have his surname.

Muirhead definitely seems to be a fling!

Ozi.

And Ley?

An indiscretion. ;)

Actually, not always a laughing matter. Our ancestors weren't as prim as our more recent ancestors might like to think. But women also didn't have any protection against exploitation and abuse. My gr-grmother had a child before marriage in 1890, and I'm doubtful that she really fell for the head of the household where she was employed as a servant (or his son, we don't know who they were, just the surname as my gr-aunt's middle name).

Interesting that Mary is described as "annuitant" in that census though. There could well have been an arrangement because of the birth, with the child's father being well off, which I assume Mary wasn't, from that address.

Well Mary & Thomas were still together in 1901. So the marriage weathered the storm.

Muirhead must've been an aberration.

Ozi.

I wonder where the Vaughan came from?

Poor old Jenni has probably got all this but I'm enjoying myself.

Ozi.

What a tangled web they did weave!

Marriages Sep 1878
MOUNTAIN Margaret Jane L Windsor 2c 783
WINTER William Vaughan Windsor 2c 783

Curiouser & curiouser!

1871 England Census
Name: William V Winter
Age: 17
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1854
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Thomas Henry
Mother's Name: Mary
Gender: Male
Where born: London, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: Kensington
Ecclesiastical parish: All Saints
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View Image
Registration district: Kensington
Sub registration district: Kensington Town
ED, institution, or vessel: 35
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 33
Household Members: Name Age
Alice M Winter 15
Edith J Winter 12
Mary Winter 54
Thomas Henry Winter 47
William V Winter 17

???

1901 England Census
Name: William V Winter
Age: 47
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1854
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Margaret J L
Gender: Male
Where born: Lambeth, Middlesex, England

Civil Parish: Clewer
Ecclesiastical parish: Holy Trinity
Town: Windsor
County/Island: Berkshire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View Image

Registration district: Windsor
Sub registration district: Windsor
ED, institution, or vessel: 13
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 72
Household Members: Name Age
Henry Harris 88
Albert W Y Winter 19
Charlotte E M Winter 15
John H P Winter 13
Margaret G J Winter 10
Margaret J L Winter 53
William V Winter 47


Marriages Sep 1878
CLARK George Windsor 2c 783
MILLER Elizabeth Windsor 2c 783
MOUNTAIN Margaret Jane L Windsor 2c 783
WINTER William Vaughan Windsor 2c 783

That's an interesting Blake connection.

???

Marriages Sep 1867
Fourcelot Sophie Clotilde A Kensington 1a 313
>>>LEY Ellen Frances S Kensington 1a 313
>>>WALKER George Stephen Kensington 1a 313
Wright Thomas Kensington 1a 313


1871 England Census
Name: Ellen T S Walker
Age: 24
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1847
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: George S
Gender: Female
Where born: Belgrave, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: Bushey
County/Island: Hertfordshire
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Disability: View Image
Registration district: Watford
Sub registration district: Bushey
ED, institution, or vessel: 11
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 92
Household Members: Name Age
George S Walker 26 - general practioner
Ellen T S Walker 24
Frances A Walker 2 [son, probably Francis]
Herbert A Walker 1
Elizabeth Lambeth 26 - nurse
Mary A Horton 24 - servant
Theadora Ashcomk 60 - aunt [Ashcombe]

And just for ref

Births Sep 1853
SATCHWILL William Vaughan Muirhead Lambeth 1d 269

He's the one born at Hercules Buildings, Lambeth.

Googling -- William Blake lived at 13 Hercules Buildings 1791-1800.

Was Mary a bit of a Bohemian perhaps??

Ah, hmm:

http://www.tate.org.uk/learning/worksinfocus/
blake/lambeth/london_11.html

(pix there)

-----------------------------------------------------------

Blake lived in No. 13 Hercules Buildings, Lambeth for the most productive years of his life, from 1791 until 1800. It was in this house that he produced the Songs of Experience, Europe and America (among other prophetic books), and the series of twelve watercolours that includes Newton and Nebuchadnezzar.

The house, which was demolished in 1918, was one of the largest in a row of twenty-four, with a garden at front and back. It stood three storeys high and had eight or ten rooms. Blake worked in the front and back rooms on the first floor.

Lambeth was a pleasant rural area when Blake arrived, but with legislation driving some of the more obnoxious industries across the river, it quickly began to change into a noisome, disease-infested slum, the London described in Blake's eponymous poem.

Oh duh. I was searching a decade off. For absolutely no reason. I probably need to get back to work ...

1851 says she's born London.

???
Births Dec 1846
Ley Ellen St Geo Han Sqr 1 4

Where is there a record of Elllen Francis Ley's birth?

Closest I find in Newton Abbot district is

Births Dec 1856
Lee Ellen Newton Abbot 5b 124

I was just about to ask whether you thought "Forgeory" might be Torquay. ;)

1851 England Census
Name: Mary Ley
Age: 30
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1821
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Torquay, Devon, England

Civil Parish: Tormoham
Ecclesiastical parish: Upton
Town: Torquay
County/Island: Devon
Country: England

Street address: 90 Lower Union St

Occupation: Annuitant

Condition as to marriage:

Registration district: Newton Abbot
Sub registration district: Torquay
ED, institution, or vessel: 5h
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 109
Household Members: Name Age
Mary Ley 30
Ellen T Ley 4 - at home

Is her name stated as Mary Satchwill on the Ley and Muirhead children's birth certificates?

... Guess we should slow down and wait for some more info ...

Is this Edith?

Births Sep 1859
WINTER Edith Jessie St Giles 1b 366

Just making sure what name she was registered under, and also whether you have the correct year of birth (and not just a census estimate, e.g.).

That's the only Edith Winter registered in 1859.

For ref:

1861 England Census
Name: Mary Winter
Age: 40
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1821
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Thomas H
Gender: Female
Where born: Forgeory, Devon, England [image looks like Torquay]

Civil Parish: Paddington
Ecclesiastical parish: St Matthew
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Street address: 16 Monmouth Rd

Registration district: Kensington
Sub registration district: St John Paddington
ED, institution, or vessel: 28
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 222
Household Members: Name Age
Thomas H Winter 35 - railway clerk; Lincolns Inn, Middx
Mary Winter 40
Ellen F Leg 14 - step daughter
William Winter 7
Alex Winter 5
Edith Winter 2
Thomas Winter 69 - father; barrister's clerk; Winden[??] Berkshire
Susannah Winter 41 - daughter [probably means Thomas snr]
Sarah Marrion 21 - servant