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According to his birth certificate, my Grandfather, George Richard Sherriff was born in Castle Road, Southwark, 1st November 1874. His mother is given as Caroline Mary Sherriff, formerly Heasley. However in January that year, his father married Mary Ann Elliott, formerly Edgeley. Both were widowed according to their Marriage cert. May Ann was the mother of subsequent children.

I cannot find any trace of Caroline Mary Heasley. On the 1861 George snr had a wife Caroline, but he did not marry Caroline Watts till the following month. Both were single on their marriage cert. Address was 1 Birch's Place on the census and 3 Birch's Place on their marriage cert May 27 1861.

My question is is there any way I can trace the true Identity of George Richard's mother, if he was baptized perhaps? and if so, how can I find it.?

Thanks

David
Recap:
Date of Birth 1.11.1874 address 38 Castle Street, Southwark father's occ. General Hawker.

1881 - connection maybe

Ann ADIE Head W Female 68 Southwark, Surrey, England Labourer (Gen)
Henry C. SHERIFF Son W Male 51 Southwark, Surrey, England
George SHERIFF Gd Son U Male 23 Southwark, Surrey, England Carman
George WEST Lodger U Male 23 Peckham, Surrey, England Carman


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Source Information:
Dwelling Cole St 39
Census Place Newington, Surrey, England
Family History Library Film 1341120
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 0533 / 54
Page Number 42

So you're saying this is your family:

Household:

Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
George SHERIFF Head M Male 62 St Clements, Middlesex, England Hawker
Mary SHERIFF Wife M Female 40 Greenwich, Kent, England
James E. SHERIFF Son Male 10 Lambeth, Surrey, England Scholar
George SHERIFF Son Male 6 Southwark, Surrey, England Scholar
Albert SHERIFF Son Male 4 Southwark, Surrey, England
Alfred SHERIFF Son Male 1 Southwark, Surrey, England

Source Information:
Dwelling 221 Tabard St
Census Place Southwark St George Martyr, Surrey, England
Family History Library Film 1341117
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 0522 / 76
Page Number 2

Rose

Portland Rose,

Yes That is the family. Albert and Alfred's birth certs show Mary Ann as their mother.

On the 1871 George is a widower living as a lodger.

I don't know when his first wife died. The only one I can find that might be her is in Warwickshire about the time of the 1871 census. the 1861 says she was born in Leamington.

Caroline Mary Heasley is the problem, I don't think she existed.

Perhaps George registered the death and made the mistake of giving his own mother when he was asked for mother of George jr? I think I've seen other threads where this has occurred.

Rose

Perhaps his mother died in childbirth

I didn't think of that. Trouble is George's age varies from census to census. c1819 to c1824.

The James E Sherriff, son, on the 1881 census is I believe a stepson, the son of Mary Ann and his name was John James Elliott, probably known as James, He appears on the 1891 as John, Stepson.

There was another son on the 1891 also John, born Dec 1882 not 1888 as on the 1891 census. Mary Ann was 44 then, but 50 in 1888

The name is sometimes spelled Sheriff, but is always Sherriff on the certificates.

Second thoughts, Rose,

I think his mother was Elizabeth Dias.

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

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Marriages Sep 1895 (>99%)
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Nelson Louisa Helena St. Saviour 1d 282
>>>>Sherriff George Richard St. Saviour 1d 282
Stockman Henry St. Saviour 1d 282
Winbow Kate Elizabeth St. Saviour 1d 282

Yes that is my grandparent's marriage, it is his mother's name on the B C of which I can find no trace elsewhere., Caroline Mary Heasley.

Have you found a death for Caroline Sherriff nee Watts?

Not for sure, the only possible seems to be

Deaths Jun 1871
Sheriff Caroline 41 Foleshill 6d 258 Wife Caroline on 1861 was from Warwickshire, but would he been shown as a widower on the 1871 when her death was registered in the June ¼ in Warwickshire?, I suppose its possible.

I am not even sure if I have found George on the 1971 census], unless this is him. Transcript says "M "but original is definately "Wid" He has always given his birthplace of St Clement Danes on other censuses, and his occupation as hawker or general dealer.but on certificates he is General dealer, general labourer, hawker of fish and in 1901 his widow, Mary Ann was a meat hawker, and one son was a general hawker in 1911.
Reg. District: St Olave Southwark Sub District: Leather Market
Enum. District: 7 Ecclesiastical District:
Parish: St Mary Magdalen Bermondsey City/Municipal Borough:
Address: Long Lane, St Mary Magdalen Bermondsey
County: London, Surrey
Name Relation Condition Sex Age
Birth
Year Occupation, Where Born
TAFFENDER, John Head M 29 1842 Yorkshire
TAFFEN, Mary Ann Wife F 28 1843 Surrey
SHERRIFF, George Lodger M 48 1823 London

Sorry that transcript doesn't give occupation, original image says labourer.

"Perhaps his mother died in childbirth "

Sorry I missed that one. George married Mary Ann in Jan 1874, George jnr (George Richard) was born in November that year. I suspect that Mary Ann was his mother but how can I prove it?

I cannot find any trace of a Caroline Mary Heasley anywhere but on the birth cert.

1861

Name: George Sherriff
Age: 37
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1824
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Caroline
Gender: Male
Where born: St Clements Danes, Middlesex, England

Civil Parish: Liberty of The Rolls
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage: View Image

Registration district: Strand
Sub registration district: St Clement Danes
ED, institution, or vessel: 20
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 145
Household Members: Name Age
George Sherriff 37 Hawker
Caroline Sherriff 29 Leamington, Warwickshire Dressmaker



Source Citation: Class: RG9; Piece: 181; Folio: 115; Page: 23; GSU roll: 542587.

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

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Marriages Jun 1861 (>99%)
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Harris Jane Strand 1b 659
Sherriff George Strand 1b 659
Watts Caroline Strand 1b 659
Webb Charles Strand 1b 659

Thanks Victoria.

This is their marriage.

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
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Marriages Jun 1861 (>99%)
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Sherriff George Strand 1b 659
Watts Caroline Strand 1b 659

This is the marriage of George and Caroline, I assume that this is the same Caroline, although they did not wed till a month after the census. I have their certificate for this.

The certificate reads:
1861 Marriage solemenized at St Thomas's Church in the Liberty of the Rolls in the County of Middlesex.
May 27th. George Sherriff, Full. Bachelor. Hawker. 3 Birch's Place. father, Richard Sherriff. Musician.
Caroline watts. Full.spinster. 3 Birch's Place. father, John Watts, Inn Keeper.

It might be worth getting the death certificate for Caroline Sheriff just in case it helps clarify matters (i.e. informant etc).

Is it worth looking for Caroline Sheriff on the 1871?

It is possible that she died end of March but not registered till next quarter? The 1871 census was taken 2nd April. Its all very close.

Also perhaps you could look the parents/ancestry for Caroline Watts and Mary Ann Elliot/Edgeley to see if there are any connections to the name Heasley.

Could the registrar had misheard Edgeley and written down Heasley? bit far fetched perhaps.

Please let us know if you get any further, I love a mystery person.

Selena

Thanks Selina

I think I must get the Death certificate. I have not been able to trace Caroline Watts or find her on previous censuses.

I am quite satisfied with the lineage of Mary Ann Edgley, although the place of birth varies. She was born in Greenwich and I have traced her baptism. The nearest I can find in "sounds like" names is her stepmother, Thomasin Harris.

Mary Ann was baptized 29 Aug 1838 @ St Alphage, Greenwich. Father John Thomas Edgeley, Mother Harriet (Knowers).

This is her and family from the 71 with family


View Record John J Elliot abt 1831 Camberwell, Surrey, England Head Lambeth London
View Record John J Elliot abt 1871 Lambeth, Surrey, England Son Lambeth London
View Record Mary A Elliot abt 1839 Greenwich, Kent, England Wife Lambeth London
View Record William Edgeley abt 1852 Greenwich, Kent, England Brother Lambeth London
Source information: RG10/650
Registration district: Lambeth

The younger John J Edgely appears on the 1881 as James E Sheriff, son, and on the 1891 as John Sherriff, stepson..

I think the only way to find out for sure is if I could trace a baptism. George Richard was born in Castle St, Southwark.

David

David you could try this site for parish records

http://www.parishregister.com/searchpage.asp

http://www.southwark.gov.uk/uploads/file_6308.pdf

Local History Library
Peckham library temporary relocation
Tel: 020 7525 0232 / 020 7525 0249
Fax: 020 7525 0244
122 Peckham Hill Street
Peckham
SE15 5JR

Also wondering if George and Caroline had any children between 1861/71?

Who were the witnesses on the marriage?