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Hi,

I was wonder if anyone could help me. I am trying to research my fathers side of the family and it has turned out to be extremely difficult. I have found information up to James Mackown (c1897) and his wife (unknown first name) Payler (c1897).

I think they come from Yorkshire (Hull, Knaresborough and Selby)
Does anyone have any information about Mackown's that they can share with me please?

Thanks

Corinne Gillepie

Where have you found the info that you have and where have you looked?

Hi Corinne - more info needed!

There are 5 MacKown births in Knaresboro 1912-1923, but they belong to this marriage:

http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl

Marriages Sep 1901
Hardcastle Sarah Margaret Stokesley 9d 1043
MACKOWN John Thomas Stokesley 9d 1043

There are no MacKown-Payler marriages ever.

Can you say where you have James's wife's surname from? If you could give your father's birth details, it would be simple to check what the mother's surname on the birth registration was.


If your father was Donald, Malcolm or Gordon, his mother's surname was Gold, and there is a James W MacKown marriage to a Marjorie Gold.

Could his wife have been married before?

There is this marriage in Hull



Surname First name(s) Spouse District Vol Page

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages Jun 1933 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gold Marjorie A Mackown Hull 9d 606
Mackown James W Gold Hull 9d 606

This is the James whose marriage rootgatherer and I are looking at:

Births Dec 1904
MACKOWN James William Hull 9d 258

and tihs is probably the Marjorie:

Births Sep 1911
Gold Marjorie A Bell Bradford 9b 237

The marriage - the cert would give you their ages, occupations, fathers' names and occupations which would make searching on the census easier:

Marriages Jun 1903 (>99%)
Leake George Henry Hull 9d 471
MacKown James Hull 9d 471
Paylor Matilda Hull 9d 471
Stevens Betsy Hull 9d 471

Clever clogs. I was thinking of a mistranscription of Taylor, but didn't mush the ideas together and get Paylor. ;)

1911 census

HOUSEHOLD MACKOWN JAMES M 1878 33 Hull Yorkshire East Riding (with York)
HOUSEHOLD MACKOWN MATILDA F 1879 32 Hull Yorkshire East Riding (with York)
HOUSEHOLD MACKOWN JAMES WILLIAM M 1903 8 Hull Yorkshire East Riding (with York)
HOUSEHOLD PAYLOR EDITH F 1894 17 Hull Yorkshire East Riding (with York)
HOUSEHOLD SKILTON EDWIN HENRY M 1877 34 Hull Yorkshire East Riding (with York)


James Mackown born in Bedale, Yorkshire

So this James William


Marriages Jun 1933
Gold Marjorie A Mackown Hull 9d 606
Mackown James W Gold Hull 9d 606


was the son of MacKown and Paylor, and was born 1904.

And the MacKown who married Paylor was waaaay older than born c1897.


Just think the time that would have been saved if Corinne had started with what she *knows* -- her dad's birth ...

Possible, given the 1878 DOB:

1881 England Census
about James MacKown
Name: James MacKown
Age: 3
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1878
Relation: Son
Father's Name: James - railway porter, born Yorks, Hunton
Mother's Name: Mary E. - b Yorks, Catterick
Gender: Male
Where born: Bedale, Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Aiskew
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Street Address: Leeming Bar
Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Bedale
Sub-registration district: Bedale
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
James MacKown 28
Mary E. MacKown 27
James MacKown 3

1881 England Census
Name: James MacKown
Age: 3
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1878
Relation: Son
Father's Name: James
Mother's Name: Mary E.
Gender: Male
Where born: Bedale, Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Aiskew
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Street Address: Leeming Bar
Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Bedale
Sub-registration district: Bedale
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
James MacKown 28
Mary E. MacKown 27
James MacKown 3




Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 4871; Folio: 106; Page: 17;GSU roll: 1342173.

Marriages Mar 1877 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CARTER Mary Ellen Northallerton 9d 828
Mackowan James Northallerton 9d 828

Births Dec 1877 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

MACKOWAN James Bedale 9d 668

1891 England Census
about James McKown
Name: James McKown
Age: 14
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1877
Relation: Son
Father's Name: James
Gender: Male
Where born: Aiskew, Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Aiskew
Ecclesiastical parish: Bedale St Gregorys
Town: Leeming Bar
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Bedale
Sub-registration district: Bedale
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
James McKown 38 - widower
James McKown 14
William McKown 8
Margaret A McKown 9
Susan Smith 29

Births Sep 1879 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Paylor Matilda Thirsk 9d 424

maybe


Births Jun 1893 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Paylor Edith Thirsk 9d 451

Thanks to all of you for taking the time out to find out some information.

Some family info

(c1897) James Mackown (married) ***** Paylor (c1897) -----Great Great Granparents

(1918)James Mackown (married) Marjorie Gold (1915)---- Great Grandparents

(1935) Donald Mackown (married) Moira Jones (1940) --- Granparents

(1960) Stephen Mackown (married) Gill (1964) ---- Dad and Mum

ME

I found the above information off family members, this website and free bmd certs. I knew my great grandmother and my mum and dad told me about my great grandfather and my great great grandfather but I don't know anything more than that..

JaneyCanuck - I found the name Paylor when looking at the birth certs of James Mackown (1918). It states the mothers maiden name.

Potty - Is the wife of James (1897) called Matilda? Who are the other people in the record?

Choccy - If that is James he has married Matilda and started a family. However there is someone else with the surname Paylor, Edith Paylor, could this be a relation to Matilda, maybe a sister? Also I wonder who Edwin Henry Skilton is, could he be a relation or a lodger? Or just a friend?

I think in the 1891 and 1881 census is the James Mackown who I was looking for, his surname is spelt differently, but that is only to be expected.

Thank you all once again!

Corinne

For future ref, Corinne -- the family info is what's needed to start with.

You knew that a James married Marjorie Gold, for instance, so me "finding" it was kind of pointless.

The names would have helped enormously, even though the dates are absolutely and completely wrong. When we see dates, we assume there's evidence for them!


"I found the above information off family members, this website and free bmd certs."

But you didn't! At least, whatever info you got from family members, you didn't try to confirm at FreeBMD and certainly don't have certificates for.

James and Marjorie were born in 1904 and 1911, not 1918 and 1915.

James and Matilda married in 1903; they couldn't possibly have been born in 1897.


"Is the wife of James (1897) called Matilda? Who are the other people in the record?"

There *is no* "James (1897)"!!!

The marriage is this:

Marriages Jun 1903
Leake George Henry Hull 9d 471
> MacKown James Hull 9d 471
> Paylor Matilda Hull 9d 471
Stevens Betsy Hull 9d 471

It was in 1903! They were *not* born in 1897!

A page of marriages in the index contains 4 names, ordinarily. You can't be sure who married whom without the certificate. In this case, since you already had the names MacKown and Paylor (more or less), that seems to be them.


Just so you know how frustrating it is for outsiders to be chasing after information that is made up out of whole cloth.

Sorry, but I have not been rude to you, so it is unnecessary for you to be rude to me. All I asked was for a bit of help. I understand its frustrating....but if you asked for more family details and waited patiently I would of informed you once I had time.

Sorry, but I was at work so I was unable to check back at the forum.

Yes, I have looked into the forum before and I do check regularly and I have seen how successful they are, hence my reasoning behind this post.

I might not be as experienced as you, but I am trying to improve my skills and slowly but surely I am getting better, but I sometimes need to be pointed in the correct direction to fully understand. We all get things wrong or muddled up at one time in our lives.

Also, I maybe young but I was polite and thanked you for your time and effort, so to suggest I was whinning is not the case, I was merely defending myself, from what I thought was a harsh message.

I must say I am more aware of the information needed if I choose to post again, thank you.