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I have a William Penn born Sept Q 1880 Shoreditch. The 1881 census states he was born Hoxton, he was the son of William Robert Penn and Julia Cross . I think he possibly married Florence Agnes Ward Mar Q 1904 and they had three childrn, Florence born abt 1905,Marguerite born abt 1907 and Edwin born abt 1909. I have found this family on the 1911 census,living 328 Daubeney Rd, Clapton Park Hackney.Any information about this family would be great.

How do you know the 1911 family is correct if you do not have the 1904 marriage cert?


Just for info
Marriages Mar 1904 (>99%)
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Browne Violet Laura Hackney 1b 503
Davis Frederick Milton Hackney 1b 503
Penn William Hackney 1b 503
Ward Florence Agnes Hackney 1b 503


Do you have a birth cert showing both the names of parents?

How did you get back to someone born in 1880 if you haven't worked backwards?

for ref

1881 England Census
about William Penn
Name: William Penn
Relation: Son
Father's Name: William R.
Mother's Name: Julia M.
Gender: Male
Where born: Hoxton, Middlesex, England

Civil parish: Hastings St Andrew
County/Island: Sussex
Country: England

Street Address: 2 Cornwallis St
Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Hastings
Sub-registration district: St Mary In The Castle
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
William R. Penn 30
Julia M. Penn 30
Julia E. Penn 5
Elenor Penn 4
William Penn


View
Original
Record

View original image

there are a number of william Penns in the Shoreditch area on various census, so don't nec' assume that the one who married as per below is 'yours' unless you have further info.

The William PENN who married Florence Agnes WARD:
Name: William Penn 44 Carlton Rd Occ: Warehouse man
Age: 23
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1881
Spouse Name: Florence Agnes Ward
Spouse Age: 23
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 16 Jan 1904
Parish: All Souls, Clapton
County: Middlesex
Borough: Hackney
Father Name: Alfred Edwin Penn Occ:Warehouse man
Spouse Father Name: Edwin John Ward

Easy to find on the 1901.

So which one are you looking for???

Maureen

1891 census for the one who married Ward

Name: William Penn
Age: 10
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1881
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Alfred E
Mother's Name: Ellen
Gender: Male
Where born: Shoreditch, London, England

Civil parish: Hackney
Ecclesiastical parish: All Souls
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Hackney
Sub-registration district: Hackney
ED, institution, or vessel: 36
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Alfred E Penn 39
Ellen Penn 36
Edwin A Penn 16
William Penn 10
Charlotte Penn 8
Sarah Penn 4
Harry Penn 2
Frederick Penn 2

__________________________________________________


Same family in 1901

Name: William Penn
Age: 20
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1881
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Alfred
Mother's Name: Ellen
Gender: Male
Where born: Hoxton, London, England

Civil parish: Hackney
Ecclesiastical parish: All Souls Clapton
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Hackney
Sub-registration district: Central Hackney
ED, institution, or vessel: 25
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 341
Household Members: Name Age
Alfred Penn 49
Ellen Penn 47
Ellen Penn 24
William Penn 20.............. Occ: Paper Warehouseman
Charlotte Penn 18
Sarah Penn 14
Henry Penn 12
Frederick Penn 10

1881 for 'your' William - you didn't mention where they were living..............

Name: Julia M. Penn
Age: 30
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1851
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: William R.
Gender: Female
Where born: Hoxton, Middlesex, England

Civil parish: Hastings St Andrew
County/Island: Sussex
Country: England

Street Address: 2 Cornwallis St
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:


Registration district: Hastings
Sub-registration district: St Mary In The Castle
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
William R. Penn 30 Musician
Julia M. Penn 30
Julia E. Penn 5
Elenor Penn 4
William Penn 7 mths

The two Julias plus other family in 1901

Name: Julia E Penn
Age: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1876
Relation: Daughter
Mother's Name: Julia
Gender: Female
Where born: Hoxton, London, England

Civil parish: Walthamstow
Ecclesiastical parish: St Michael and All Angels
Town: Walthamstow
County/Island: Essex
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: West Ham
Sub-registration district: Walthamstow
ED, institution, or vessel: 67
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 87
Household Members: Name Age
Julia Penn 50 <<<<<<<<<<<Married
Julia E Penn 25
Harriet Penn 19
Alice Penn 17
Florence Penn 15
Annie Penn 10
Frank Penn 6

All children from Harriet onwards born in Hastings

Births Mar 1882 (>99%)
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Penn Harriett Hastings 2b 48

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Births Mar 1884 (>99%)
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Penn Alice Hastings 2b 35

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Births Dec 1885 (>99%)
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Penn Florence Hastings 2b 39

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Births Sep 1890 (>99%)
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Penn Annie Hastings 2b 31

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Births Sep 1894 (>99%)
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Penn Frank Hastings 2b 25

This could be the father's death

Deaths Jun 1926 (>99%)
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Penn William R 75 Hastings 2b 33

1911 - living in West Ham

PENN A F 1891 20 West Ham Essex
PENN F F 1886 25 West Ham Essex
PENN F M 1895 16 West Ham Essex
PENN J M F 1852 59 West Ham Essex
PENN M F 1888 23 West Ham Essex
PENN W R M 1851 60 West Ham Essex - born Hoxton - Occ: Musician

Sister Julia's marriage?

Marriages Sep 1901 (>99%)
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BUSBRIDGE John W. Ham 4a 687
Penn Julia Eleanor W. Ham 4a 687


Birth reg'n confirms second forename

Births Sep 1875 (>99%)
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Penn Julia Eleanor Shoreditch 1c 74

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1911 census

BUSBRIDGE JULIA ELEANOR F 1875 36 Hastings Sussex
BUSBRIDGE JULIA ESTHER F 1902 9 Hastings Sussex
BUSBRIDGE JOHN M 1874 37 Hastings Sussex
BUSBRIDGE JOHN GORDON PENN M 1909 2 Hastings Sussex

I'd just about given up hope of finding them in 1891

Name: Florence Demo
Age: 5
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1886
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: William
Mother's Name: Julia
Gender: Female
Where born: Hastings, Sussex, England

Civil parish: St Mary in The Castle
Ecclesiastical parish: Emmanuel
Town: Hastings
County/Island: Sussex
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Hastings
Sub-registration district: St Mary in the Castle
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
William Demo 40
Julia Demo 39
Harriet Demo 9
Alice Demo 7
Florence Demo 5
Maud Demo 3
Annie Demo 10/12
Fanny Winner 21
Julia Cross 60 Mother in Law
William Demo 10 b. London

Thanks for all your replies. I now know that my William Penn is not the one who married Florence Ward. Here is more info:

William Penn joined the 3rd battalion, 12th company of the Imperial Yeomany on a limited engagement in January 1901 and served as a groom in South Africa (Cape Colony) from March 1901 to August 1902 when he was discharged at Aldershot. at the end of December 1902 he joined the Royal Field Artillery at Weedon with the rank of gunner on another limited engagement,and in January 1903 he was discharged from the service.
There is meant to be a possible dutch connection(William married a dutch girl according to family stories??). I have looked to see if he married while in Africa but have not found thi. Finding a William born in the right area on the 1911 census got me off in the wrong direction,but not for long thanks to all my replies.

Edit sorry repeat posting

EAPN , I'm still not quite sure how you are getting back to William Penn if you haven't got his marriage or birth?

William Penn born 1880 Shoreditch who I am trying to find,is my Grandmother Julia Eleanor Penn born Sep Q 1875 brother. I do not have any connection today of a living relative. Do not know who he married or how many children he had,I have nothing to go on except his miltary record and that he "probably" married a Dutch girl possibly in South Africa.Hence my query to this forum. I can not find another William Penn in the 1911 census,perhaps he was not living in the country and that is when I made my mistake with the William married to Florence Ward.

Hi I have tried to "add" to all your messages but am unable to do this so I can only "reply"

The family of William Robert Penn married to Julia is correct and they did live in Hastings. In 1911 they were living in Westham London and returned to Hastings later where William died. The death of William Robert Penn is also correct. Thanks again for your help everyone.

I wish you had told us all the details before - I spent ages looking for him in 1901!!